Exclusive interview with Dharmendra Pradhan: 'We will make exams 100 per cent foolproof'

Soon after he resumed charge of the Union ministry of education, Dharmendra Pradhan had to deal with the storm that broke out over serious irregularities and subversions of the national entrance examination system with the Opposition even demanding his resignation. In an exclusive interview with India Today Group Editorial Director Raj Chengappa and Deputy Editor Anilesh S. Mahajan on June 25, Pradhan speaks forthrightly about the action the central government has taken to deal with the crisis and the challenges that lie ahead. Excerpts:

Q. There has much angst and controversy over the National Testing Agency and the way it has conducted entrance exams, particularly the recent NEET-UG (National Eligibility Cum Entrance Test for Undergraduates) to medical colleges. What are the reasons behind it?

The NTA, for the past six years, has been successfully conducting some of the country's most prestigious tests, like the JEE-MAIN for engineering and the CUET for central universities. Any organisation should regularly reshape and reinvent itself, make itself modern. So, the NTA needs to reincarnate itself. Because technology is changing, challenges are mounting and participation is increasing. This time, for the examination we are talking about, 24 lakh students registered and 23.33 lakh appeared for the test. When so many collegiates appear for a test, challenges are bound to increase. Last year, the NTA successfully conducted entrance examinations for higher education and jobs for over one crore students. This was an incident that should not have taken place; greater precaution should have been taken.

Q. Serious allegations have been made. Tests like the UGC-NET (University Grants Commission- National Entrance Test) have been cancelled. Other tests have been deferred.

Look, only one test has been cancelled, the other has been deferred. This was because I felt that when complications arose, we should take the time to address them. UGC-NET was cancelled because you got the leaked question paper a day before the dark net and it spread on Telegram—never before has it happened. With time, technological and cyber criminal challenges have risen. There had been a compromise. CSIR-NET (Council for Scientific and Industrial Relations-National Eligibility Test) has been deferred, and will be held soon.

Q. Why was the CSIR-NET deferred?

Though no malpractices were involved, we thought we should postpone it because there was already an issue with the UGC-NET and for the NEET-UG too. So, we decided not to do things in haste and deferred the exam.

Q. When it comes to the NEET, reports are coming in that possibly the question paper has also been leaked from one or two centres. Since you cancelled the UGC-NET because of a paper leak, has it now become imperative that NEET be cancelled too?

These are two different things. The UGC-NET question paper had leaked on the electronic medium. In NEET, apparently it is a localised, isolated issue, which is being investigated. Primarily, Bihar as well as Gujarat police have been proactive and are ring-fencing both. In the inquiry, they have identified how far it has spread. In due process, all candidates have been served show cause notices on why they will not be debarred in the future from this type of examination. That legal process has been done. In the country, these subjects are under the purview of the Supreme Court. The court will take a holistic view on July 8. We have to wait for it.

Q. What is the other reason?

Secondly, meritorious students across the country who have studied hard have a strong viewpoint. They want to move ahead and study, and their interest is important. As a government, our responsibility is towards everyone, and we should work with great sensitivity. We have to work on concrete proof and information, which the government has done. People had resentment against the NTA. We also prima facie thought so. So, we changed the NTA's leadership. A seniormost, secretary-level person has been made its director-general. To let it not spread, considering the whole examination process, data pooling, the structure of NTA and other issues, we have formed a high-level committee headed by former ISRO chairman Dr K. Radhakrishnan, with other experts as members. In this whole episode, in the isolated incidents that happened in two-three places, what was the submission of the people who moved writ petitions? That there should be a neutral inquiry. And we ordered a CBI inquiry. In all these, the government is committed to zero error.

Q. So, you don't see the need to cancel NEET?

Forty-six writ petitions were filed and the whole episode is before the court. The matter is sub judice, it's unfair on my part to spell out anything. Let the court take (a decision). The NTA did not have any tradition or practice or rules to give grace marks. By giving 1,563 students grace marks, the NTA set a wrong precedent. Then people went to the court. The court said the government should look into it. The NTA submitted a proposal for re-examination before the court, and the court endorsed it. Re-examination happened for these 1,563 students on June 23. The court hasn't yet cancelled counselling. Whatever responsibility the government had, we have done it. It would be prudent to wait for the court's ruling.

Q. The Opposition has been demanding your resignation because clearly these flaws are serious and students have been affected. Your reaction?

During the Opposition's time, when there was a Congress government in Rajasthan, were there no question paper leaks? I don't want to speak in political language in this whole episode. My responsibility is not to create anxiety in the minds of those who have appeared in the exams or want to take them. The Opposition has a role to play, they will play their role. My conscience is clear. The conscience of my government is also clear. We have left no stone unturned to fix this.

Q. There are Computer-Based Tests (CBT) like the JEE (Joint Entrance Examination for engineering). There was talk of NEET going for CBT in 2018. Do you think it's time to review this?

Look, there are both practices—CBT and pen and paper. Currently, the capacity of our country to conduct Computer Based Testing is around three lakh. We have to do six sittings for it. There are challenges there. We do it in JEE. In that, we conduct it twice for 25 lakh candidates. In CUET, we do it in blended mode. For the last eight years, from the beginning, since PMT (Pre-Medical Test) time, medical entrance tests have been happening in pen and paper. There's no comparison between apples and oranges. Both are nutritious and sweet. Both have their advantages and challenges. After all, CBSE conducts Class X and XII board exams in pen and paper. To make them foolproof is our responsibility. The NTA is the agency that conducts exams and it is its decision. The respective ministry and state government are its clients.

Q. M.K. Stalin, the chief minister of Tamil Nadu, says that NEET is unfair to rural students, especially those in villages and it is urban ones who succeed. Do you want to relook at the whole system of NEET?

This is a political stand of the DMK, that there should not be any NEET. But NEET happened on the direction of the Supreme Court. I just want to point out that last year, the NEET topper was a Tamil Nadu Board girl student from rural Tamil Nadu. Also, there is a fundamental difference in trends between the All-India Pre-Medical Test and NEET. Earlier, in the South, students used to write separate examinations for each of the state boards of TN, Andhra, Kerala, Karnataka to get a seat in one of them. Now, because of NEET, they take only one test; they are saving money and time. He or she doesn't need to appear in multiple examinations. This is a great relief and this was recommended by the Supreme Court. And this is a reformist idea that our government has implemented. From the primary trends, we see that the participation of students from SC, ST, OBC and weaker sections has gone up. They have a higher success rate. Students who have not gone to coaching centres have done well.

Q. Those who are opposed to NEET point out the Multiple Choice Question (MCQ) format vis-a-vis the others, where some think rural students are disadvantaged. Is there need for a review?

Certainly, the new reform committee of the NTA will look into that. But let me talk about Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalaya or JNV students, who are essentially from rural areas. You go to any JNV, you'll find two-three students who have been successful in NEET. How come? And if you go into their social profile, they come from SC, ST, OBC and weaker section backgrounds. Essentially, they come from semi-urban and rural areas. So, data is showing something else. Some people have a compulsion to create a certain narrative, but the fact on the ground does not match that. My government is committed to protect the interests of students…the interests of students of rural areas, those from the SC, ST, OBC and weaker sections of society. In 2014, there were around 51,000 medical seats. Today, we have 110,000 medical seats. So, we have doubled the number of seats, created a transparent examination system. These are our government's commitment to medical education.

Q. Many experts believe that there is some nexus between coaching centres and examination setters. What is the truth?

In January, when there was a lot of anxiety over suicides, the Government of India issued an advisory on how coaching centres should perform. A few coaching centre owners were unhappy and they are at the forefront of this current movement. I fail to understand how they are related. This is number one. Number two, what is the biggest challenge? The allegation of difficult questions…that it is too urban-centric. Two things were done consciously this time. During the Covid pandemic, NCERT had introduced reduced syllabi. This time, questions were based on that reduced syllabi. Difficult questions were moderated, state boards were involved, not just the CBSE. There are more than 60 boards in the country. The kind of questions that class 12 students have to answer in their board exams, similar questions will be asked. So, those who depended on set patterns and rote learning, their interest was compromised. And one or two unfortunate incidents happened. Around that time, the NTA did some non-transparent things, like introducing grace marks, which was not part of the system earlier. It may be related to only a few students, but it created confusion. And in one or two places, some isolated incidents took place. In those places, the local police took preventive measures. Everything is there in black and white and it will be presented in court. I am nobody to give a certificate. I am responsible for giving solutions. The prime minister is 100 per cent committed to make the country into an economic superpower. When it comes to entrance tests, there is no shortcut, we need to make things hundred per cent foolproof. That we will do. Looking into that, we have formed a very high-profile, high-level reform committee. We are very clear in our intentions.

Q. You have just notified the rules for the law to take penal action against those attempting to cheat and subvert examination systems. What's behind this and what kind of impact will it have in cleansing the system?

No state, whichever party may be in power there, is free of this affliction. I have data to prove it. Unfair practices, cheating, tampering of public examinations, gangsters, lobbies, those with vested interests are involved in this. For the first time, we have brought in laws to prevent this. There were laws, but we have made it focused, to ensure that those tampering with public examinations will receive stringent punishment. Be it under the old system or the new system, no one will be spared.

Q. Some people who have been arrested recently in NEET, will they be tried under the new law?

Maybe. But I assure you stringent action will be there.

Q. When it comes to recruitment examinations too, we have seen leakages of question papers, postponements and other such issues. Will the committee that is formed to look into the NTA also go into the recruitment exams?

Whoever disrupts public examinations, either for jobs or for admission into educational institutes, will face action. In both cases, what's tampered with is the test. The committee that is there to relook at the structure and functioning of the NTA will certainly look into it, as the NTA, though it is primarily for education entrance tests, is also conducting tests for recruitments.

Q. Many of the tests are conducted by the state agencies. How do you want to take them along?

Every state faces this challenge...this cancer. Every government department faces it, as all departments carry out recruitment. We all want it to be tamper-proof and 100 per cent error-free. So, both states and the Union government will have to deal with this challenge together. We are committed to that.

Q. You've resumed charge as the Union minister for education. Besides dealing with the immediate crisis, what will be your key areas of focus for the education ministry?

Education is the mothership department. India is destined to become an economic superpower. The ball is not just rolling, it's unstoppable. In the next 25 years, India has to be a developed country. The 21st century is the era of knowledge-based economy. India has its own strength in this area. Our education ministry's focus is on how to fulfil both domestic needs and global aspirations. We have to create more entrepreneurs. We have to create more job-ready students, more professionals with more skills. The National Education Policy (NEP) has recommended everything in its document and the successful implementation of the NEP is our priority.

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