Rep. Raskin: Democrats are ‘having a serious conversation about what to do’ after Biden debate

For joining me now is the Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He's the ranking member on the Oversight and Accountability Committee. He previously served as the lead impeachment manager for the 2nd impeachment of Donald Trump. He's a member or he was a member of the January 6th committee. He's also the author of the book Unthinkable Trauma, the I'm Sorry, Unthinkable Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy. Congressman, it is good to have you here. And I don't really know which one to start with because we have two major, major issues on our hands. Let me just start with the one that John Allen was talking about, the discussions around the future of the Democratic Party with Joe Biden as the presidential candidate. You are a thinker. Our our viewers respect you as such. Tell me your thinking. Well, I mean, this is what a real political party looks like and this is what a real political party does. But obviously, there was a big problem with Joe Biden's debate performance. And there's also just a tremendous reservoir of affection and love for Joe Biden in our party. And so this makes it a difficult situation for everybody. But there are very honest and serious and rigorous conversations taking place at every level of our party because it is a political party and we have differences in point of view. I mean, if you compare that to the nonexistent dialogue and conversation that took place in the Republican Party after Donald Trump's criminal conviction on 34 counts, it's remarkable. And so we're having a serious conversation about what to do. One thing I can tell you is that regardless of what President Biden decides, our party is going to be unified. And our party also needs him at the very center of our deliberations and our campaign. And so whether he's the candidate or someone else is the candidate, he is going to be the keynote speaker at our convention. He will be the figure that we rally around to move forward and beat the forces of authoritarianism and reaction in the country. All right, let's let's move on to the thing in which you are also an expert, constitutional law. We are expecting within 24 hours we will get a decision. It's a very unusual because we shouldn't we could have had this decision from the Supreme Court and this opinion a long time ago about Donald Trump's immunity. Very interesting conversation that I had an hour ago with Judge Michael Ludig and with Lawrence Tribe. I want to just play something that that Judge Ludig said, because the conversation goes around the fact that even if, if Donald Trump is not given immunity, it's too late to hold a trial. I put that to Judge Ludig. Here is what he said. I would urge Jack Smith in the strongest possible terms today not to yield to that cynical partisan politics and to bring this case on for trial even in September or October. Wow. In the in the name of and for the sake of American democracy, the Constitution and the rule of law, I would love your take on that. He's saying Jack Smith should go ahead with this if he is at all permitted to by the Supreme Court tomorrow. Well, you know, I think that the in deference to Jack Smith and executive branch, we've got to let them make their own decisions the way the Supreme Court did, not the way that the majority on the court repeatedly interfered and threw monkey wrenches in that process. I'm smiling only because Judge Ludig, of course, was an extremely conservative Republican judge. And what I'm hearing from a lot of people in this situation, essentially refugees and exiles from Trump land like Judge Ludig or Liz Cheney or Michael Cohen. These people who are now distinguished patriots standing up for democracy is they are the people fighting hardest to try to turn things around and make sure that Trump and the forces of mega don't run roughshod over our constitutional democracy and everything we believe in. You know, Judge Ludig, I get, I suppose, as a professional Hazard places perhaps a little bit more stock in everything that goes on in the courts than I do. I mean, you know, I am not now either in the prognostication business about what courts will do or the adjudication business. I am in the political mobilization business. And for me, this campaign is all about galvanizing millions and millions of people across the country, including disenchanted renegade Republicans and independents, to come and join the forces of democracy. And that's what's going to save us, not any particular regular courtroom in the land. So then that's full circle to our first question about what happened to Joe Biden, because there are lots of sound arguments and I, I fully subscribe to them that 90 minutes does not a presidency make and that there's no comparison between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. But there is this issue, if you are talking about being somebody who, who wants to win this election, that there are 100 million eligible voters who sat out the last election. There is a lot of disenchantment amongst voters right right now. Thursday may have contributed to yet more of that. What's the best way for Democrats or people who are concerned, whether it's Liz Cheney, Judge Ludig, you or every other Democrat in this country, to, to make sure that Donald Trump's not the president of the United States? And I, I ask you this again to say you didn't rule out the possibility that Joe Biden steps out of the race. What do you think the right thing to do is? Well, look, we've got a lot of confidence, a lot of faith in President Biden. And, you know, he will have to make the decision about whether or not what happened at the debate was one bad night and President Obama had one bad night. You remember, in debating Mitt Romney, or is it reflective of something else going on now? He came back roaring in North Carolina. I thought that that was a very sharp and hard hitting speech when he was in North Carolina. And so that gave me some comfort. But I know that there are still a lot of concerns out there and those are not concerns that are ill motivated in any way. Again, we love Joe Biden. He's been a magnificent president. I mean, if you think about the infrastructure plan with, you know, a trillion and a half dollar investment in the bridges and roads and highways and rural broadband, you think about Inflation Reduction Act and dramatic reductions in prescription drug prices in the Medicare program. I constituent spending 500 bucks a month on their insulin shots as diabetics. Now that's down to $35.00. So he's done extraordinary stuff. But the question now is, you know, can we recover from the hit that we took during that debate? And there's, you know, real soul searching going on. But ultimately, President Biden is going to have to make that call. He's the one who's got the Super majority of delegates. The party in the convention are still behind him. But he's going to have to make that judgment. And again, this is what a real political party looks like. It is not a cult of authoritarian personality where one person calls all the shots. And so it's President Biden, it's advisors, it's governors, it's mayors, it's representatives, it's senators, it's the family, it's America that's involved in this decision. You know, President Biden has never said to America, I alone can do this. I alone will make all the decisions for you. That is the path of dictatorship. And we know who's on that path. And so your your argument, which I think is intriguing, is that this this moment that the Democratic Party is going through or anybody who actually likes democracy in this country is going through this angst is, is, is healthy. It's not a cult. It's not that everybody's got unified messaging on this. And I'm sort of with you on this. Jamie Raskin, good to see you, as always. Democratic Representative Jamie Raskin of Maryland, go ahead. Thank you very much. And, you know, and I think all of us, regardless of what happens with this particular imbroglio, all of us need to be engaged in this election. And that's what democracy is all about.