Labour frontbencher refuses to answer eight times when asked which lavatory a trans woman should use

Bridget Phillipson would not answer questions about which facilities trans women should use - Justin Ng/Avalon

A Labour frontbencher has refused to answer eight times when asked which lavatory she thinks a trans woman with a penis should use.

Nick Ferrari on LBC asked Bridget Phillipson to clarify her stance on whether trans women should be able to use women’s lavatories.

Earlier this week she suggested they should be able to use the women’s lavatory, but on Thursday morning she was unwilling to say.

The trans debate has become a key battleground in the election, with the Conservatives accusing Labour of failing to protect women’s rights.

Harry Potter author turned women's rights advocate JK Rowling - Stuart C. Wilson/Getty

Last week, JK Rowling, the author, said she would “struggle to support” Labour if Sir Keir Starmer does not change his current stance on the rights of transgender people.

Asked the question for the first time by Ferrari, Ms Phillipson, the shadow education secretary said: “I believe that single sex spaces are important... My background before I became a politician was managing a women’s refuge.

“So I understand how important it is that women have access to single sex spaces, have that safety, that dignity, that opportunity to speak openly about traumatic events in their lives.”

Ferrari then presented a specific scenario about a trans woman with a penis needing to use a public lavatory in a restaurant, asking: “The trans woman with a penis would use which lavatory?”

Ms Phillipson repeatedly suggested that businesses should provide “a range of different options,” even when Ferrari specified that the hypothetical restaurant only had two options – male and female.

As Ferrari pressed for a specific answer, asking multiple times which door the trans woman should go through, Ms Phillipson continued to emphasise the need for “common sense solutions” and “being practical”.

She said: “I wouldn’t want that person to feel at risk, Equally, I wouldn’t want biological women to feel intimidated.”

Despite his best efforts, Nick Ferarri could not elicit answers from Bridget Philipson - Ian West/PA

Ferrari asked her: “But you seem to have checked earlier this week you said she should use the female toilet, didn’t you?”

Ms Phillipson did not address this, saying: “Look, these are, these, I want to make sure that everyone, where it comes to this discussion, that we do, we have this discussion in a way that is respectful and seeks to find common ground.”

It came after Ms Rowling, the Harry Potter author, accused Labour of “abandoning” women and being “dismissive and often offensive” approach to their concerns.

Earning trust

Asked if she is concerned about losing trust over a “muddled stance,” Ms Phillipson said: “I have a huge amount of respect for JK Rowling, not least in the work that she’s done around campaigning for women, you know, around domestic violence, around rape crisis services and making sure that all women in our communities feel safe.

“We will work every day to persuade voters who are not voting Labour that we can earn their trust once more.”

It comes after on Wednesday night in a BBC general election debate Rishi Sunak said that Labour would be unable to protect single sex spaces because Sir Keir Starmer is not prepared to change the Equalities Act.

The Prime Minister said that he would ensure that safe spaces such as lavatories and sporting teams would be available for women and that trans women would not be able to enter.

He said: “We will do that by changing the law so that in the Equalities Act, sex means biological sex.

“That’s the choice in this election. Keir Starmer has not matched that pledge.

“He’s not sure like I am that sex means biological sex and that’s how you protect female only services.”

Law change not needed

Sir Keir said a change in the law was not needed, as the Equalities Act allows for single sex spaces.

He said: “I do know a small number of people are born into a gender they don’t identify with and I will treat them with dignity and respect.

“It’s provided for under the Equalities Act – he is fabricating a difference here in a situation where we should be trying to find common ground.”

Sir Keir has struggled in the past to answer questions about trans and women’s rights.

In April 2023, the Labour leader said that “99.9 per cent of women … haven’t got a penis”, but by last week he said: “On the biology, I agree with what Tony Blair said, in relation to men having penises and women having vaginas.”

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