'It's too little, too late'

Right to the Post Office inquiry now. And a former senior engineer who helped build the Horizon software system has defended it, telling the Post Office inquiry that it's still working Well, Gareth Jenkins worked at Fujitsu, the company whose software leads to thousands of wrongful convictions. He is currently under investigation by the Metropolitan Police on suspicion of perjury. Well, today is the first of four days of evidence that he will be giving. Our business correspondent Paul Kelso is at the inquiry and has been speaking to a former sub postmistress Seema Mistra, who was wrongfully jailed or pregnant. I was very eager to see him after so many years. I still see him like, you know, it's like nothing changed. His evidence to that court case was that he knew of no bugs, errors or defects in the Horizon system, that you and your lawyers were saying that the cause of this missing money. And today he defended the system. Tell us what you made when he said that the system worked. Yeah. Even after like, hating Aglo or 2019, that it was proven that Horizon is a robust. He still believed that Horizon worked properly. That's his believe. That's his belief. Could you believe, just say that the High Court found that the system could not be described as robust. He was asked about it and he said he thought the judge was wrong. Could you believe that? No, no, we, we, we, we've been through it. So we can't believe it. Definitely not. And he, he's put to the inquiry this morning that he was asked to be an expert witness, but he didn't know the full extent of the errors within the horizon system. He only knew case by case. He looked at what happened at your branch. He didn't know the whole thing. What do you make of that? His position that he was giving evidence without the full picture. It's so difficult to accept that because I don't think there's any degree or anything which you have before you come into visit. We give a witness in the court, you have to have certain degree. It's a common, common sense. That's my take. It's a common sense when you're giving something underoath or anything like you shouldn't lie. It's just the truth, just the truth. So indeed. And the post office, he says, did not prepare him for the full legal consequences of being an expert witness. It's not just knowing the subject, it's knowing the responsibilities you have, for example, to disclose information. He didn't tell your legal team that he knew of some bugs and he knew that also there was remote access to the system. Are you hoping that will be addressed here? Hopefully you know it will be addressed and all that. And you don't need a preparation when you're telling the truth. You don't need a preparation. It's just, it's just there, it's the truth. He's apologised in his witness statement to you. He hasn't said it in the open hearing yet, but he says he would never have lied and he's he's very sorry. What do you make of that apology, Randy? And I don't accept it. It's too little too late, as simple as that. It's, it's, it doesn't watch with you. It doesn't. It doesn't. I still have another three days to go. The invite. Let's see how it cooperates. But till now, as of now, I don't accept it. You are racking up the apologies, aren't you, from Post Office executives and staff. I I've lost count of the number of people who apologise. How does it how are you feeling setting their expressions of sorrow against what you're hearing about many of them not taking responsibility. I know it's just like feels like a ritual now. So when they come to the inquiry as it in public domain now they're facing public here. So it's just becoming a ritual. They're gonna they have to apologize even if they don't mean it. So that's why there's a reason. Do you feel you are edging closer towards some justice and recompense for what went on with this inquiry? It's been going for a long time now, 3 1/2 years. Do you feel you're getting closer? Oh, yeah, definitely. Because we won't give up till we get the closure and proper accountability. And what do you want to hear in the rest of Gareth Jenkins evidence? Why he did what he did? That's like who who was behind it? What was his reason of, you know, to do what he did? And yeah, that's what the main reason is. Can I ask how this process is for you? Finally, You're coming here a lot. We see you when the when the big moments are. You're here every day. You clearly had a really life changing experience. How are you as you're seeing this through? It is mentally tiring, but it's need to be done. I want you to be here definitely today, just to be in face to face as well. But it is mentally tiring, but it's need to be done. Will you be here for the next three days? Of course. Yeah, whole four days I'm here.