Lawyer and activist Hayriye Kara on Turkey's crackdown on LGBT rights

Now it's time on the program for our Perspective guest. In doing the research for today's Perspective, one of the first articles I stumbled across asked the question on the top line in its headline, Is it safe for LGBTI plus people to travel to Turkey? Where the answer was simply definitely no. We'll show you some images, for example, of Istanbul Pride. This is from 20/22. It starts off very peacefully, but as you'll see, the situation does deteriorate. While same sex relationships and we're all trans people are not illegal in Turkey, there is no legal protection from discrimination. That even though the overall situation is considered less repressive when compared to most other Muslim majority countries. This weekend here in Paris, Amnesty International is mobilising for the rights of LGBTI plus people in Turkey as part of Pride Month. The Turkish lawyer and activist Harriet Kara is in Paris at the Pride March this coming weekend, and she joins us now here on set. Thank you very much for coming in and thank you very much for having me. Let's talk about the situation first of all in Turkey. How bad is it for LGBTI plus people right now? I can say the situation is not good for LGBTI plus people in Turkey. But The thing is, the LGBTI plus moment in Turkey is very strong. We are there, we are in the streets, yes, the government and demonize and targeting LGBTI plus people right now inside Turkey like LGBTI people are against our family values. It's like our moral issues. But The thing is, you know, we are there, we have rights and we are struggling for it. So in Turkey, yes, as you mentioned, you know, same sex relations, not illegal. But The thing is right now the in the legislation like against morality, family values usually used against LGBTI plus people, you know, to prevent, to intervene their freedom of speech and freedom of protest. I mean, people quite brave, would you say, to go out and join the the yes, they are very brave. But The thing is we, this is about holding your ground. You know, this is not about, you know, saying something about fashion or something like that. We are talking about our lives, you know, our spaces, we are living there, our bodies. So this is about we are, this is about our bodies, our lives, right to life. And so we have to be brave, OK? You know, we are here and people have to deal with it. You're an activist and a lawyer. What kind of cases do you do you have to deal with? OK I am working in KAOS. GL professionally is the 1st and the leading LGBTI Plus association in Turkey since 2010. I provided legal assistance to LGBTI plus people from Turkey, but my profession is I am working with LGBTI plus refugees and on refugee rights for years. So I'm providing assistance and I'm following the cases of LGBTI plus refugees inside Turkey. And how difficult is that? I mean, have you been able to have some successes or is it is it a constant battle trying to help people? The thing is, you know, I don't know, 10 years ago that's OK, but since 2015, Pride marchers banned by the government and also, you know, police officers attacked brutally the demonstrators in the streets. But, you know, poor LGBTI refugees. It's not about only the practice, you know, also it's about the legislation. Turkey is kind of a legal limbo. So it's really hard to, to advocate to, to, to, to struggle for refugee rice because of the situation and refugee crisis, you know, and also racism is increasing everywhere. I'm not talking about in Turkey, also in Europe, all around the world. And Turkey is kind of the gatekeeper of EU right now regarding refugee rights and, you know, keeping refugees inside Turkey. So also it's really hard to struggle to advocate about human rights all in Turkey internationally, You know, we, we could, we cannot find also international pressure on Turkey. And those people who are trying to help, presumably they're discriminated in two ways. For a start, they're refugees and their LGBTI plus as well. Yeah, they are facing multiple discrimination, you know, they're dealing with, they're trying to survive within this hostile community, you know, increasing racism, demonize LGBTI plus people and also, you know, even some opposition as societies, opposition parties in Turkey, they're producing, you know, racist commands against refugees in Turkey. So you're right, you're hearing in Paris to take part partly in the in the gay pride events this Saturday. I mean, it's a huge event here in Paris that that'll occupy a number of streets as it as it makes it way through very, very colourful, very, very loud. Is it important to you to to be here to see that kind of thing happening in other European countries? Yeah, it's, it's really, yeah. I think it feels really good because, you know, for years I I could not March for years in gay prize because also, you know, I was working at a time as a lawyer, you know, like the in the negotiation committee and after that following the custodies. But right now I'm here as an activist and I'm going to be March and I think it's going to be feel really good. But The thing is, you know, in Turkey, I really want to thank all the LGBTI pluses in Turkey. They are in the streets and they are really brave and they are demanding their rise in the streets. And right now in Turkey, all the human rights, you know, facing a lot of difficulties in Turkey. But The thing is only families and LGBTI pluses are on the streets, demand their rights. So it's very important. And LGBTI plus moment are is very political in Turkey. So yes, I'm going to be March for them also, you know, and on Sunday there is going to be a pride March in Istanbul. Right now, we do not know what's going to happen, but most probably, you know, police will attack because last year also attacked people and over 100 people were taken under custody. So also, I really want to mentioned here the Pride March in Istanbul. Yeah. So very much while you're marching on Saturday, you'll be thinking about what's going to happen the next day. Very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know those emotional moments as well, you're carrying through as well. You're taking part in a, in a debate as well on Friday night, aren't you? Yes, yes, yes. Tell us about that. Yeah, You know, I'm going to speak with my friend from Turkey also. And we will also I will talk about the legislation and how legislation used against is used against LGBTI pluses and Pride marches and, you know, against the freedom of speech and freedom of protest of LGBTI pluses. Because right now I'm not talking about only Pride marches. You know, the rainbow is criminalized by the authorities. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And also it's scary. I'm not talking about only rainbow flags. I'm talking about rainbow, you know, the items, you know, rainbow on it. So, you know, I'm gonna talk about these issues, the freedom of speech, mostly focused on freedom of speech and freedom of protest. One last question, and this is to help our viewers, I suspect more than anything else. We're very used, particularly here in in France and other countries to hearing that expression. LGBTQ. Now we're saying LGBTI. Tell us what that change is and why it's come about. The thing is, you know, I, I, I am not familiar at the moment here in France closely, but in Turkey for years we are using LGBTI plus. So I means intersex and I'm sorry about I, I, I am, I try to explain it, but you know, English is not my first language very well. It intersex people do not have you know typical define as typical man and woman sex characteristics. They do not fit defined men and women sex characteristics. So you know, there is no type one type of intersex intersex sex characteristics. So the eye is for intersex people in Turkey, the intersex moment intersex activist, you know, with the we're really close to LGBT moment in Turkey. And plus is an umbrella term or it can also include queers. So you know, LGBT, lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and intersex for you know, people have different sex practices from typical man and woman. You know, it's could be chromosomes or you know, the genitals or reproductive organs. Good to have it explained. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming. Thank you so much today. Harrier Cara in Paris this weekend for the Pride March. Thanks for joining. Thank you so much.