Chief Of Army Staff General Manoj Pande On Building New India's New Defense Doctrine At TN Summit

General Manoj Pandey for gracing this occasion where we are talking about India unstoppable and India is unstoppable because we are led by an army, an Indian army that we are so proud of. I want to today begin with asking you on what is that? What is it about India that makes it unstoppable and how is the army really doing what it does? What we are so proud of in terms of making a difference to this story of India, right. Firstly, thank you for having me here. Now I see Indian Army as a key contributor and a stakeholder in the nations rise. I believe nations progress and security are inextricably linked, while the economic progress is The Fountainhead of growth. I think it is the military strength that lends it the capability to be able to address ongoing as well as future security challenges. So let me say in terms of our commitment to make sure that Indias growth story is not impeded in any manner because the security trend, that commitment is absolutely unwavering. You also ask as an army what? Why? So let me try and define as an institution, what is it that defines the Indian Army. Firstly, I think its a microcosm of values that all citizens look up to in our society. Secondly, it is our core values which are built on the edifice of Nam Namak Nishan. Third is our unwavering commitment towards motherland and that is again exemplified well in a part of the Czechodian motto which says that the safety, honor and welfare of the country comes first always and every time. Then there is aspect of secularism wherein within the army we have soldiers from different religion, ethnicities, different regions working together and that is part of our integral part of our character. If I may. So these are some of the issues as to what defines us as. Also, if you look at unity and diversity, we have soldiers from different states, different religions, different languages. We all work together as a cohesive force. You also mentioned about the faith that the citizens have and why is that. I think it is because of the selfless commitment of our soldiers that they see in terms of protecting our borders, getting deployed in the various internal security situations. It is also because of the sacrifices that our soldiers are ready to make. It is the confidence that the citizens have in our combat experience, in our training, the equipment that we have. That is another factor why people have faith or repose faith in the Indian Army and they also see as part of the national integration. Here is an organization or institution which again exemplifies national integration. So what I wish to say is it is because of these factors that our soldiers or the Indian Army has created a special place in the mind space of our citizens and it is their trust. It is their faith and confidence reposed in us that only strengthens our resolve further. And I am confident that on the basis of our character, our values and our total profile professionalism, I think we are able to meet the expectations and the aspirations of the citizens of this country. Very well said, but General Bande, recent conflicts, whether in Russia, Ukraine or Israel, Hamas conflict. There are some lessons that have been thrown up. Wars are clearly not as fast and swift and devastating. It is the manner in which these wars have come up that has made us look at some of the lessons that come out of this. How are we taking these lessons and how are we adapting ourselves to the technological progress That is a very important feature in some of these wars. You’re you’re very right. I think there are very profound lessons that we can learn from the ongoing conflicts that are happening around us and these are at each level with the strategic level, the operational level, all the tactical or the functional level. So maybe at the strategic level, I think one of the most important takeaways for us is to become self reliant. We saw it during the pandemic. We saw it during the recent conflict situations. Our import dependencies have to become near 0. I think the second important lesson is where national interests are involved. Countries will not hesitate to go to war. So the salience of national security in the international system is something again has been, I would feel, reestablished or revalidated. Third is in terms of the relevance of land forces. Because we have disputed contested borders. I think the salience of land forces will remain in terms of victory markers. Again, victory markers will be decided in my view in the land domain. There are also aspects of technology and you mentioned, so it is no longer the conventional combat superiority conventional platforms that will determine victory in the future. But you have niche disruptive critical technologies that we saw to give examples, you have the unarmed vehicles, you have manned unmanned teams, You have activities in the cyber domain, in fact influence operation, the battle of narratives. I think these are the areas which are outside the conventional domains of warfare. These are becoming increasingly important in the future and hence the importance of how quickly and how efficiently we are able to leverage these technologies which are available within the country. In the commercial world, there is also this aspect of Gray zone warfare. So we understand Gray zone in different domains of let’s say economic activity, diplomatic activity. But the Gray zone actually which is in the military domain, be it the land, air or the maritime domain are as important. So we need to strategize as to how do you deal with these challenges in the Gray zone, How do we strategize to have a effective sort of Gray zone strategy. And there are other lessons at the tactical levels in terms of the larger weapon platforms, how do you incorporate small teams and the rest of it. So all these lessons we need to pick up, but we have to be careful that we need to see as to how relevant are these lessons in our context. Well, Atma Nirbhatta, Atma Nirbhatta is an important strategy, its an important initiative and very recently we did see the Bharat Shakti Expo where the Prime Minister talked about the growing Aatmanir Bhar Shakti that we in India are developing. Having said that, for the layperson, many people often wonder whether in today’s cutting edge technology world, are we somewhere or the other compromising on our strategic requirements with Aatmanir Bhatta or has domestic manufacturing and domestic innovations actually been able to keep pace with the technological developments in the field of defense? How do you see this entire balance, so to speak? So let me mention to begin with about exercise Bharat Shakti, which we recently did in the Pokhran And the aim was to demonstrate our ongoing efforts and initiatives towards capability development through Atman and Bharta. It was also an opportunity for us to showcase the robustness, the reliability and the effectiveness of indigenous systems that are currently in service. And I think we were able to do that to great satisfaction. I mentioned about the necessity to become self reliant. In fact, I would go a step ahead and describe it as a strategic imperative for the future. It is not only for conventional platforms, often we mistake Atman Air Bharta or to become self reliant in terms of new acquisitions. But in my opinion it is as important or perhaps more important for us to be able to source our requirements for sustenance such as ammunition, your spares and other requirements also indigenously. That is one part. Second is technology. Even if we were to import certain weapon systems from wherever we import this, you’re not going to get the best technology. So you will always remain, as I say, 1 technology cycle behind. Hence, it is important for us to develop our own capabilities in terms of developing technologies and hence the importance of the research and development. And I think in that direction, again, adequate emphasis is being done for a good defense industrial ecosystem to develop. I believe there are four essential parameters, 4 requirements. First obviously is the resource allocation, second is the demand, third is competition. And 4th is enabling policies and provisions I think we need to address. And I again believe good work is happening in all these directions as to what we as services can do. I think we have taken a number of steps to promote Atman and Barta in terms of having our own agency which we call the Army Design Bureau, which is our point of contact, the nodal agency as an interface with the industry. We have regional technology nodes at important centers such as Pune, Bangalore, Hyderabad. We have Indian Army cells cooperate with institutes of academic excellence such as the IITS. We are hand holding the defense industry in terms of facilitating visits of the representative to forward areas, facilitating trials and testing of the recruitment systems and the likes. We are also looking at spiral development and following different parallel routes of development in terms of what the industry can do. I think the good news is that the Indian defense industry in my opinions is stepping up to the challenge. I think they have invested or they are investing in research and development into modern production and manufacturing techniques. And in terms of if I were to give you some numbers, I think we have about close to 340 industries which are currently working at something like 230 contracts. And by 2025, if you do the bean count, these amount to about 2,00,000 crores. So this is the kind of potential that has. We also need to look at as to how do you tap the innovation potential in the country. We have a very vibrant startup ecosystem. So that is another area in terms of innovation, in terms of the young bright minds, how do we engage with them, how do you collaborate with them to address our technology requirements. In terms of ammunition, we have about 174 ammunition categories, about 130 of them we do produce indigenously. We are focusing on the rest. So there is good progress happening with private industries also setting up manufacturing plants for ammunition in different parts of the country. So overall I find there is enthusiasm, there is good traction. What we need to be careful is while we focus on our meta, Martha, there are no capability voids or there are no capability gaps in terms of our war fighting potential and that is what that is the key which we are looking at. Well said that clearly India is setting its own benchmarks and its own milestones. But General Manoj Pandey, let me come down to the crux of the issue, and I’m sure you’ve been asked this question several times after Galwan. The top most question in everybodys mind is how prepared are we along our northern borders to face Chinese threats and challenges? We’ve had several rounds of talks. What is the progress made in those? Is there really something to talk about at the moment? That’s how lay people would be asking questions. And just just how safe are we from Chinese threats, right. So first part of your question, how well are we prepared? I think we have prepared in every manner our levels of operational readiness. Operational preparedness is of a very high order in terms of our deployments along the entire length of 3488 kilometers of our borders, I would say is both robust as well as balance. And when I say this, it is in terms of different components or elements of, you know what the military has be the artillery, be the tanks, be the infantry and the likes. We also have made sure that we have adequate reserves to be able to deal with any contingencies that may arise and these are the contingencies that we keep war gaming from time to time. So we have our response mechanisms firmly in place in terms of what is the progress of talks. As you are aware, we have talks at 2 levels. One is at the military level at the level of our core commanders. We have had 21 rounds on talks. And then you have another level that is a diplomatic level where you have the mechanism of WMCC. We’ve had so far 14 rounds of WMCC talks post the events of mid 2020. It is my belief that it is only through talks that you will find resolution to the balance issues that are currently at hand. Now while these talks are progressing and I may not, I would not want to go into the specifics because that may not be that relevant here. But while we are engaging in talks, we are also focusing on capability development along our northern borders of which technology infusion modernization is an important part. The very recently the government gave us provisions to the service headquarter to procure certain equipment or war fighting systems to meet the immediate requirements. We’ve been able to put that to good use. We are also focusing on infrastructure development, which again I believe we are moving in the right direction. So to sum up, I think our preparedness levels are of very high order and we are maintaining a very close watch on the developments and what’s happening across the board. General Saab, you are an experienced man on giving the questions and, you know, answers to questions in a very calibrated manner. Well, I’m also an old news hound, so I’ll ask you the same question in a different format and I’ll ask you on a scale of one to 10, what is your threat perception from China? I think a more appropriate question would be on a scale of one is to 10s what is your preparedness level And my answer is that you’ve answered you’re 100% prepared where I have no questions but one to 10 thread perception as how how would you look at it in a practical manner? Well, I think you know from time to time we keep reviewing threads. It depends on what time of the year at purely at the tactical level. So threat during winter months may be slightly different than what it is during summer months. So it may not be fair for me to quantify, but just as our Western adversary, with respect to our northern adversary, I’ll only like to say that our preparedness levels are very high. OK, well, so let me then ask you on. Yes, big round of applause ladies and gentlemen, because all of us sitting here in the audience feel feel extremely, extremely positive and confident that so long as the Indian Army is there, we have nothing to worry about. And that is the trust level and that is the preparedness level assurance that you give to the people of this country. Let me also ask you about domestically. There are many states where you play a role. Jammu and Kashmir, Manipur, some of the northeastern states. Let me begin with Manipur. In recent times, we’ve seen a turbulent sequence of events in Manipur. How do you look at the situation prevailing there and what are the challenges and how are you meeting them, Sadhguru? Then before I come to answering this question, I must mention to the audience here that pose the incidents that happened in Manipur on the ninth on 3rd, 4th of May. Think it was our proactive deployment, induction of additional forces there that we were able to control the violence levels to a very large extent and ever since our soldiers beat the Assam Rifles, beat the army units who are deployed there, I would say have given an excellent account of themselves. There are challenging operational conditions, but in terms of preventing any collateral damage to non military or civilian population, in terms of ensuring their own safety and protection, I would believe they have done an excellent job. So what are the current challenges and what is the way forward? If I were to list out first the challenges, I think the aspect of weapons which are currently, you know, still available at large out of the close to 6000 weapons which have gone missing, we have been able to recover about 1800. So there is a fairly large number of weapons which is still available and that is a cause of concern. There is also the issue of activities that is happening across the Indo, Myanmar border and with these kind of weapons available that remains a challenge. Second is to get both the communities together, I think in that direction also lot of work, lot of initiative, lot of lot of efforts that are happening but well have to again move forward in that way. What I want to mention is that the situation there transcends just a law and order situation or a law and domain. We will have to come up with a very comprehensive and a detailed framework to be able to find an answer to the ongoing issues there. I would also highlight as to what is it that we are doing. We have a large servicemen population in Manipur. So we are, we have asked them to engage with the local community, take the lead. Our units there are helping the internally displaced people in the various relief camps. And I have asked my unit soldiers to remain extremely professional and do not and not to get caught in any of the sort of ongoing issues that are happening, which I think to their credit they have done an excellent job there. And do you think we are close to a stable situation or do you think there are still miles to go? Well, I like I said its a process. I think well have to do the right things in a good, you know, in the near future and there are a number of things well have to do well have to address issues in terms of building trust between both the communities. There are issues which well have to address purely in the realms of security in terms of how our security forces operate there and likewise. So its a mix like I said it has to be a comprehensive multidimensional approach for us to find a good solution and get back normalcy in that area. Well said, let me let me then take you also to Jammu and Kashmir. How are we looking at the situation, especially in the light of the forthcoming elections? Because fishing in troubled waters is what our western neighbor has very often used as a matter of strategy. Terrorist activities are responses to it. Likelihood of any increase in threat perception from this terrorist activity especially in election times. Abrogation of Article 370 and since then the way the situation has unfolded. How do you see the entire scenario in Jammu and Kashmir? So Army formations were deployed in Jammu and Kashmir, both in the hinterland as well as along the Line of Control in a counter infiltration posture or counter infiltration grid. I think we are working closely with the civil administration. We are closely working with other security agencies, other security forces, central armed police forces as well as the JK police. And that is the kind of synergy that is the kind of coordination in which we are working, which I believe is extremely important and is the key in terms of infiltration. There are attempts at infiltration which are continuing both in the valley region as well as to the South of the PE Punjab region. But again we have a very robust and an effective counter infiltration grid which I think has proven successful in the hinterland. While there are cases or instances of violence, but I think it is more out of our adversaries having recalibrated their proxy war strategies in terms of making people believe that it is a locally sort of generated or locally created insurgency. So we are keeping a close watch. I think our deployments are robust. We have a dynamic grid of deployment there. So based on requirement and based on the situation we do recalibrate realign our counterterrorism grid. Do you anticipate any trouble during elections? Well in terms of any incidents that may happen we keep getting inputs of different kind. But I think the intelligence agencies, the state administration and all the security forces that are operating there, I think we are capable and and to ensure a incident free sort of operational environment so that the elections happen in a peaceful environment. Let me let me also ask you about one of your schemes that often makes headlines especially with opposition parties which is the Agni Veer scheme. It remains in the headlines for all the wrong reasons and and the opposition has only one view of it that it is creating you know a new line of cannon fodder for the enemy state and they are not covered as other soldiers are and and actually becoming cannon fodder without even getting the protection materially or training wise or even you know, if they were to attain martyrdom. Let me start by saying that the sagni path or agni wheel scheme of human resource management was a transformational change or a transformation reform that we undertook in the past so many years. The advantages, the benefits that accrue out of the scheme I did not mention or repeat here because I think that is something which is well known after certain initial misgivings, apprehensions which in my opinion arose out of lack of full information or in some cases perhaps misinformation. I think all those are put to rest as to how the scheme or how the agnivirs are doing. The feedback that I get from our units formations and when I visit them, when I interact with them, it is extremely encouraging. It is extremely positive within the military, the leaders at all levels, right from the platoon commander right up to divisional commander and above. Everybody has taken ownership of this scheme and again, we are doing everything possible to make sure that things happen in the right manner at the right time. There are certain changes, certain issues because this is something new. So there is no rearview mirror for us to look at. So there are certain changes, certain lessons that we are learning as you are proceeding forward and we are implementing or incorporating those modification changes in the system. In terms of concerns with respect to what you just highlighted, we are also making sure that when the Agni wheels at the end of four years move out, they carry a unique resume, not only what they have imbibed out of the army or the military, but also they carry the skill sets. So we have worked alongside the NCVT, the National Skill Development Council to make sure that whatever training they have undergone in the four years, they are adequately equipped. So my belief is with this kind of qualification at the end of the four years with the kind of Sevanidhi or the money that they will get, I think there is good potential for them to pursue whatever they wish to do. Not only that, even for the industry, I think there is good. I believe this is a good source of youth who are well trained, motivated and I find they will have good demand once they move on. We are also looking at lateral absorption of the Agni wheels post their exit after four years in different government department agencies. And as you would know, again, there’s lots which has happened. We are working in that direction. More so I think the cynicism with respect to what will happen once they moved out after four years, in my opinion, is misplaced. General Pandey, before I let you go, I cannot but hold a session without asking about Nari Shakti and how that is performing in the Indian Army. How do you look at the role of women in combat roles even in the newest Agni Veer scheme? How do you look at their participation and how is Nari Shakti in Indian Army actually performing? Very briefly, we were the first one to have women come into our forces. We currently have women amongst our forces in 12 Arms Oblique services. We have women who have given excellent account of themselves not only in adventure sports, in other activities, but you would recall even they’re deployed in difficult areas such as the chapter and glacier etc. We have close to 128 women officers who are not donning the rank of a Colonel and they are commanding officers, commanding officers, commanding units and each unit is about 800 to 1000 soldiers, again in extremely difficult areas of Leila da Jammu and Kashmir and the Northeast. So I think we have women in the UN assignments. We have sent them with our contingents to be part of the UN peacekeeping force. So every in every which way and in every sphere of activity, I think the women officers as well as women soldiers have proven themselves and they are prepared to take on additional responsibilities as they move forward in the OR the progress in their professional careers. Well said General Manoj Pandey. Ladies and gentlemen, 3 cheers to the Indian Army. And of course we cannot but say 3 Cheers to Nari Shakti, General Pandey, its been a real pleasure speaking to you and your complete frankness in shedding light on so many questions and so many areas which we as civilians needed answers for. Thank you very much Jai Hind. Thank you for once again for inviting me and giving me this opportunity. Much appreciated. Thank you.