Russia, largely excluded from international sports, hosts BRICS Sports Games 2024 in Kazan

10s of millions are tuning in to watch the tournaments, Russians among them, despite the fact their team isn't taking part, is it? It is, of course banned from FIFA competitions because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. What you may not know is that Russia is hosting its own international sporting tournament right now. This Sunday is the final day of the BRICS games in Kazan, but it's not enticing as many viewers to discuss it. We can welcome Simon Roth, who's a sports diplomacy expert and associate professor of international politics at the University of Leeds. Thanks for speaking to France 24. Good morning. Pleasure to be here. Morning. So are Russians simply more interested in the EUR because they love football? Well, it seems to me that the appeal of sport is universal and it's often been the case that politics will trump the reality of sporting fandom. But on the ground the fans will watch and consume sport in all sorts of ways. And the Russians who are tuning in to watch top level sport in the centre of Europe are also been tuning in to watch the NBA Finals. They've also been tuning in to watch the games in Kazan. So the appeal of sport really is something that we shouldn't underestimate. It's one of the reasons why politicians throughout the ages, not just at the moment, will utilise sport to be part of their experience and to shape their own ends. And is this ban on Russia's participation in everything but friendlies? Is this a has had a had a sort of effect of bitterness on the on the fans appetite to watch? Or are they still just tuning in and enjoying the tournament regardless? But I think the fans are still interested in sport and the outcomes. They're still going to be supporting teams and players and the opportunity to watch that, that high level competition, the opportunity that sport presents to be used in a political way. You know, the use of boycotts, the 1980 and 84 Olympic Games, which in themselves gave birth to the World Athletics Championships because sport was such a strong driver that even despite these boycotts at a high level between from the then Soviet bloc and the Eastern Bloc, the West, they still created a sporting event that enabled them to compete. And the appeal of competition is something that we shouldn't underestimate. So I think these are difficult decisions for in some senses for the athletes participating and for the authorities. The IOC, the International Olympic Committee in Lausanne in Switzerland is dealing with these issues on a daily basis. And you know, the compromise outcomes when it comes to Paris, 24 independent neutral athletes competing. This is how you know these things are reconciled. It's a challenging environment. And, you know, the use of sport for political means is again, something not is not new. Well, let's talk about then that Russian participation under a neutral banner, or should I should say, Russian athletes participating in the Paris Games. Do you have a take on this? Do you think there is a solution which is preferable for you? It's obviously a controversial topic. I mean, there's precedence here. Neutral athletes who competed in, you know, recent Olympic Games politicians have sought to perhaps exploit that. But we've also seen it work in terms of the cause of peace. Remember the 2019 Ping Chang Winter Olympics, where North Korean and South Korean athletes competed alongside each other? And the opportunity that, you know, there is in Paris to provide some reconciliation to the difficult decisions and difficult scenarios we see in Ukraine and in the Middle East. These are, you know, sport has a role to play. It's not the panacea. It's not us, you know, going to provide all the solutions, but it's a reason to have a conversation. And if nothing else, the sort of central tenets of sport diplomacy is about having a conversation, providing a space for dialogue. And in those circumstances we have the opportunity, one that isn't always realised, but we have the opportunity to be able to engage in a diplomatic practice which can resolve our differences and tell us a bit more about the the BRICS games. Then athletes from almost 90 countries have taken part, even though some of these nations don't actually recognise these games. And perhaps what do these games mean for the Russian athletes that they get to take part? Well, these are games that that they come with a a heavy dose of political patronage. But then sport has always done that. You know, the BRICS games provides opportunities for other participating nations. It's a platform, you know, the sporting, you know, in certain sports, the sporting level will be very high because of the of the nature of those competing. Equally, we shouldn't underestimate how much the the alternative, you know, this is a precursor to the Olympic Games in some athletes eyes and and the quality of some of the teams that have been sent, you know, represents that, you know, second tier of, of competition. That's by no means to denigrate any of the the athletes and their endeavours, but simply to say that, you know, one of the functions of, you know, a major sporting event is to blend that cultural sporting political dimension. And therefore, if you've got 100 and sorry, 90 odd countries, then you know, that's approximately half of the members of the, the IOC. So you've got half the level of competitors. And we've just seen the the games, these Brits Games wrapping up this Sunday. Would you say overall they've been a success for Russia? Well, I think in some sense it's their successive we're talking about them. So, you know, the fact that whether they're worthy of discussion, they provide an opportunity to talk about Russia that isn't talking about the campaign in Ukraine. It provides an opportunity to, you know, talk about something other than Mr. Putin himself. This this is a, you know, an opportunity and and sports, you know, whether you agree with it or not, provides that that space for an alternative dialogue. Now, the impact on Russian athletes is an opportunity to compete at a high level. And, you know, that's that that's to their benefit, whether they're able to take this competition to other spaces to, you know, work in other ways and we'll wait and see. All right, Simon Roth, thank you very much for taking part in this discussion on front 24. Thank you. Take care.