Post Office staff ‘probably feared career death’ by conceding Horizon failings

An independent forensic investigator told a former Conservative MP that Post Office staff “probably fear it will be career death” if they conceded failings with the Horizon system, an inquiry has heard.

The Post Office inquiry was shown an email from Second Sight employee Ron Warmington to Lord Arbuthnot from June 2013, in which he said the Post Office was “incredibly defensive” and nobody was “ready to give an inch”.

The probe heard former North East Hampshire MP Lord Arbuthnot told the then chief executive of the Post Office, Paula Vennells, to halt prosecutions while Second Sight investigated the Horizon system.

Lord Arbuthnot gave evidence to the inquiry on Wednesday (Jordan Pettitt/PA)

He accused the Post Office of “stringing MPs along” in a “behind-the-scenes deception process” to cover up issues with the Horizon system and protect the company’s “existence”.

Speaking about the organisation’s position following an investigation by Second Sight, Lord Arbuthnot told the probe on Wednesday: “They knew there was a large number of bugs in the system that they hadn’t told MPs about.

“They were operating some sort of behind-the-scenes deception process which suggests to me now that they were stringing MPs along in order to preserve the robustness of Horizon, the existence of Horizon and possibly the existence of the Post Office.

“That’s what I know now, but I didn’t know that then.”

He continued: “They portrayed Second Sight’s interim report as giving Horizon a clean bill of health when clearly it hadn’t, and that led me to think that they didn’t like what Second Sight had said about Horizon.”

The inquiry was shown Mr Warmington’s email to Lord Arbuthnot, in which he said those responding to his questions were crafting responses in a way that would “appear to many … as to avoid actually giving any answers”.

The email read: “They are still – understandably I suppose – incredibly defensive and nobody – at the levels producing the responses – is ready to give an inch.

Paula Vennells defended the Horizon system as ‘robust’ when it was queried by Lord Arbuthnot (Jeremy Durkin/PA)

“They probably fear it will be career death to concede any failings whatsoever.

“We have consistently and clearly asked for short, easy-to-understand, honest and complete answers to assertions that we have put forward.

“What we are getting are highly technical, multi-page responses that will appear to many to have been crafted so as to avoid actually giving any answers to those assertions and allegations at all.”

Lord Arbuthnot told the inquiry: “I had rather greater faith in Second Sight’s legal expertise than it seems they (the Post Office) did.”

The inquiry was also shown minutes of a telephone call between Lord Arbuthnot and Ms Vennells from May 2013, in which the former Conservative MP raised concerns about prosecutions continuing despite an independent review being conducted by Second Sight.

Lord Arbuthnot giving evidence to phase four of the inquiry at Aldwych House, London, on Wednesday (Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry/PA)

The minutes read: “The JFSA (Justice For Subpostmasters Alliance) raised a concern with James (Arbuthnot) that the Post Office is continuing with prosecutions despite the review taking place, predicated on the view that there is ‘nothing wrong with Horizon’.

“(Lord Arbuthnot) does not think we should be prosecuting on that basis (I think because Second Sight have made noises about finding something).

“(Paula Vennells) promised she would go back to James on this point.

“(Lord Arbuthnot) said we should not go ahead until we can prove there is no remote access to the system or branch terminal which can change the subpostmaster’s account.”

During Lord Arbuthnot’s evidence, the inquiry also heard Ms Vennells suggested “temptation” for subpostmasters to borrow money from tills was a problem and not the Horizon system.

Minutes recorded of what Ms Vennells said during a meeting with MPs in 2012 read: “It appears that some subpostmasters have been borrowing money from the Post Office account/till in the same way they might do in a retail business, but this is not how the Post Office works.

“Post Office cash is public money and the Post Office must recover it if any goes missing.”

Lord Arbuthnot also told the inquiry he thought Ms Vennells felt “ashamed” after he called her out for “breaking her word” during a meeting in November 2014.

He said the meeting was led by “stronger personalities”: Angela Van Den Bogerd, the then-head of network services, and former general counsel Chris Aujard.

The former Tory MP spoke of how it was the “last straw” that the Post Office had proposed excluding subpostmasters who pleaded guilty to alleged offences, including his constituent Jo Hamilton, from the mediation scheme.

In his witness statement to the probe, he said: “They said that the Post Office should exclude altogether from the mediation scheme people who had pleaded guilty — a different proposition from their being put to the back of the queue.

“I asked them how they thought I would have supported a scheme which excluded my constituent, Jo Hamilton, to which they had no answer.

“This, for me, was the final straw. Paula Vennells seemed almost cowed by their stronger personalities and said little. I told her she was breaking her word.

“I sensed, rightly or wrongly, that she felt ashamed. The meeting broke up in acrimony.”

Lord Arbuthnot said he was not satisfied with the “brush-off” response he received from Ms Vennells after he raised concerns over subpostmaster complaints about the Horizon system.

During her time as managing director, Ms Vennells defended the Horizon system when it was queried by the former MP, describing it as “robust”.

Ms Vennells, who was chief executive of the Post Office between 2012 and 2019, was formally stripped of her CBE following the Horizon scandal.

Lord Arbuthnot first learned of issues with the Horizon system from subpostmasters in his constituency, including Jo Hamilton, who was falsely accused of stealing £36,000 from the Post Office branch she ran in South Warnborough, Hampshire.

The Post Office has come under fire since the broadcast of ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office, which put the Horizon IT scandal under the spotlight.

More than 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted by the Government-owned organisation and handed criminal convictions between 1999 and 2015 as Fujitsu’s faulty Horizon system made it appear as though money was missing at their branches.

Hundreds of subpostmasters are awaiting compensation despite the Government announcing that those who have had convictions quashed are eligible for £600,000 payouts.