‘Public sentiment matters’ - The difference between anti-war protests of the 1960’s and now

Joining me now is presidential historian and author Doris Kearns Goodwin. Her latest book is An Unfinished Love Story, A Personal history of the 1960s. I’m very proud to call you my friend and say all that I’ve read so far is so good. We’re going to get to the book in a moment, Doris. But I do want to compare and contrast the protests that we’ve seen on these campuses the last few weeks with those of the 1960s. There’s one Vox reporter who points out the current protests have faced swifter suppression. In one example, the University of Texas called in police, in riot gear and on horseback despite no signs of violence. So put today’s protests in historical context. Will the students protesting be seen as being ultimately on the right side of history? Well, it’s really interesting, Alex. When I look back at the 60s, which I’ve been living in for that book that I was working on with my husband before he died, there’s really two parts to the 1960s protests in 1967 and 1968. Anti war protesters were peaceful. They were disciplined. They joined the McCarthy campaign and the Robert Kennedy campaign. So they had a channel for their protest and they cut their beards. They that girls wore long skirts. You know, the boys cut their hair and they really were out there knowing that public sentiment mattered. They were disciplined, the message was clear, and they made an impact, John. And in March 31st, 1968, LBJ started negotiating a piece. He called for an end to the bombing and he withdrew from the race. But then what happened is fate intervened. Bobby Kennedy is killed, Martin Luther King dies, riots, and the peace talks stall. By the time we get to the Democratic Convention, there’s frustration still. The overwhelming majority were peaceful. I was there. So was my husband. We didn’t meet. It was one of those many times where we were many places where we just didn’t meet. He always said he was looking for me this whole time, but nonetheless, besides the majority who were peaceful, some people had come just to frustration. Mayhem, disturbance, and then the police were already waiting for them before they had done a thing. Mayor Daley’s forces were out and they responded overwhelmingly responded in force, and then the disorder and the mayhem meant that even that night Teddy White, the great reporter, said the Democrats have lost the election. This very night the Law and Order campaign became Nixon’s campaign and that was the victory that Nixon and then the war went on and on and on. So that was a very sad ending. But there was real idealism at the beginning of it all. There was a comparison to be made with the campus protests against apartheid in South Africa because those did have some success. You had 155 universities that ultimately divested and then 1986 the US government also bowed to pressure from protesters and enacted A divestment policy. How do you see the comparison? Do you think the current protests can be as successful? At least that incident was. Well, that incident too, had a specific goal in mind. You know the divestment about apartheid and there was a worldwide feeling against apartheid that was developing. This one is so much more complicated because both sides are so much more complicated in this, in this struggle. And the question will be how much goes forth in the fall. It’s going to depend so much on what happens. The war in Vietnam was in our control. It was our war. It was an Americanized war. This is a war where other people have control over what’s happening, even as the students are protesting. So let’s get to the book, which I’m happy to do. You have this book about the 1960s decade, and it’s through the lens of both you and your husband, both of whom stood on the front lines of history. And you, Doris, have created this narrative from 300 boxes of letters, photos, documents that your husband Richard gathered. He had hoped to write this book. Unfortunately, Dick passed away before that could happen, but as you’ve referenced, he was an aide to JFK, also then President Johnson, Senator Robert Kennedy, and he also helped name Johnson’s Great Society initiative. There were a few other names that were being bantered about, but his was the best one. Talk about how huge of an impact that has had on so many of the programs that we take for granted today. You know, you’re so right. I mean, one of the reasons he carried these boxes around for 42 years of our marriage and didn’t want to open them was that the decade had ended. So sadly, a dark curtain was drawn on it because of the riots and the deaths and the assassinations. But as we went through the boxes, we began from the beginning, we relived it, suspending our knowledge of what was going to happen later, all the sadnesses that came. And it was an extraordinary decade. I mean, you’re right. All around us is the results. Civil rights, voting rights, Medicare, aid to education, immigration reform. There’s so much that was accomplished during that time. And the wonderful thing for Dick was that as he remembered the good parts, he had been so resentful of the war in Vietnam. He was such a big anti war person. He thought it had destroyed the Great Society. But of course it hadn’t. And the 50 year anniversary showed that it was still there, affecting our daily lives in many ways. It gave him a sense of of fulfillment. It gave him a sense of purpose. In those last years he couldn’t wait to open these boxes. At one point he said I wonder what will be finished first, Me or the boxes. But those last years, even when he had cancer, he looked forward every day to our being able to go back. And Oh yes, I remember this. I remember this Lady Bird and Jackie Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy. I mean, they all were part of his life. And my life too, even though mine was. I was more of a a younger person during this period of time. But it was the decade I’ll remember in some ways as the most vital one of my public life.