On GPS: Is there a credible path to a Palestinian state?

And we are back with Bernard Abishai and Ezedidim Fischer, who teach a course together at Dartmouth. Ezedid, let me ask you, you’re a former Egyptian diplomat, what is the price Israel is paying, you know, in conducting this, this extraordinary operation in Gaza? Because while you hear a lot of noise about the Arab St. Arab governments, for example, C CS government in Egypt hate Hamas. In fact the view Hamas as AKIM to the Muslim Brotherhood and and Sisi has jailed thousands and thousands of members of the Muslim Brotherhood. So is there is there a real price Israel is paying or is it as I suspect a lot of people in the Israeli war cabinet think, you know, they’ll make a lot of noise, but the Arabs actually are happy we’re taking care of Hamas. Yes and no. They’re happy that Israel. If Israel can weaken Hamas, they will be happy. But the problem is they understand that that goal is unattainable. And then the question practically becomes whether they like Hamas or hated. The question becomes how do we deal with an organization that is there, that has capability and that affects Palestinian decisions and that governs their approach to Hamas. They understand that this military operation will cost more damage to the Palestinian civilians then it’s going to cost to Hamas, and therefore they would like to bring it to an end and find a path towards a Palestinian state. Now, a credible path to a Palestinian state is their ticket to resolving this conflict and to both and to deal with the question of Hamas. But obviously to do this they also have to pay a price, which is to be able to give Israel security guarantees. And so far they have been reluctant to do this. If you manage to get those two things together, a credible path to a Palestinian state and then Arab rule in which they according to which they take responsibility for Palestinian security with Israel, then we have a path towards resolving this conflict. If we can’t have one of the two, then I’m afraid we will go back to the status quo ante before October seven with the same dynamics that were there. Which means we will be looking for another round of conflict at some time in the future. Bernard you and Ezzedine published a a co-authored an op-ed where you argue you know maybe out of this can come a broader regional piece. All of that seems premised on the idea that Israel will be willing to allow a Palestinian state to come into being. And it seems like from the polling I’ve seen that seems further away than it’s ever been in the last three or four decades. Israelis are really not happy to do that. And that, you know, that gets to this issue of the crisis between Zionism and liberalism, which is Israel is a country, but it is a country that has been occupying these lands with 5 million Palestinians for 56 years now. Is there hope that, that that that you could imagine a Palestinian state? Well, the polling is a little misleading because it doesn’t really offer a choice that is other than yes, no. If you ask Israelis do you want a Palestinian state on your border, they think, oh, the attack will come from Kalkiliya next time. So no, we don’t. But if the choice is a regional deal, normalization with the Saudis, economic growth, the opportunity to resolve the problem in the North, the the, the, the sense that America is with you, as they were two weeks ago, the night that Iran fired these missiles, so that that alliance no longer fears feels merely hypothetical. If that’s the choice, then, you know, forget the polling, there’s a there’s a new opportunity here. And I think Blinken is trying very hard to emphasize this, that it’s not, do you want a Palestinian state or not, it’s do you want this package that offers this kind of opportunity or do you want to go back to the status quo, anti as Izzadine said, and have to deal with all the blowback in the world for maintaining the occupation? It’s going to be a culture war here as it has been in the past. And you know, I’d like to think that reason will prevail on that wonderfully helpful note. Bernard Avisha, Ezedein Fisher. Thank you so much. Pleasure to talk to both of you. Thank you for having us. Thank you.