EU antitrust chief Margrethe Vestager on regulating Apple, Microsoft, and big tech

This is the first time we’ve had the opportunity to speak with you since the US Department of Justice launched its probe against Apple. I want to get your thoughts on the case and also some of the real granularity of it. I mean, we heard them talk about the App Store, digital wallets, even the colour of messaging bubbles. What did you make of that? I think it’s a very important case. I think it’s very important that antitrust authorities do their job in order to have fair competition in everything digital. You know in the US as well in in as in Europe, we have you know sparking vibrant innovation in environment and ecosystems. And of course it is very important that they can get to their customers buyer, maybe a second App Store buyer sideloading so that they are enabled because real competition comes in an open contestable market. And and I think that is what the US case about, this is what our cases are about both when you look at the Apple case, but also when we enforce our Digital Markets Act. Do you agree that Apple has a monopoly on the smartphone market? I mean that was really the headline when it came to the DOJ’s case. Of course I have, I have not had a chance and it’s not my responsibility to go into the details of the case. But I think what we see is that there are indeed very different and and very separate markets when it comes to smartphones. You know a very high end, very expensive phone is not in the same market as a as a very, you know, affordable cheaper phone. So. So one should be very nuanced when it comes to comparing phones because those were in the market for for very high end than not in the market for a number of other phones. OK, I want to talk to you about the Digital Markets Act. You are investigating Apple along with some other big tech players. It’s not just about Apple, Google and Meta included in relation to their compliance. Can you share an update? Yeah, we have the suspicion that these companies are not living up to their obligations. They they play a very important role in the digital markets and if they close the market then no other business literally have a fair chance of getting to the customers. For instance, when it comes to to preferencing if if you get a Google search you’re looking for flights and you only get Google flights, well there may be other service providers who are much better in in providing services to you. Same when it comes to Amazon. Do we see that they are making sure that you see all the amazing offers that independent sellers, sellers on the platform actually would have for you. And last but not least can you, can you go to another App Store if you’re not happy, if you prefer to have a games App Store or a App Store with you know really really excessively secure apps or would you want to have an App Store where young people can feel that what they offer there is actually safe. So quite a number of issues where of course we would want full compliance and and we see that there are differences in how businesses they relate to us. You know the word compliance really stuck out in which you had to say, I I want to go to back to a compliance or what could be a compliance issue, you tell me Apple, it still hasn’t improved Spotify’s update following your antitrust ruling. Your office said it’s investigating what’s the status of that and and what happens if Apple isn’t in compliance. Well, this is absolutely top priority because it’s about our choice as consumers. Well, you can choose to pay within the Apple system and pay a 30% surcharge in order for that. But it should also be possible for you just to have a direct relationship with your service provider and pay the price that they’re asking without the 30% Apple service fee. So it’s really high priority for us to get Apple to comply with this. And and we’re investigating this as a very high priority, all right. With so much going on in the global economy, I just want to get your, your broad sense of when it comes to big tech and AI, what regulation are you looking at? What do you think needs to be done going forward? I mean, you’re one of the most influential voices when it comes to big tech regulation as we see this emerging tech continue develop. What are you looking at? What are the big issues in the future that we think we need to identify? Well, you know we have, we have brought our European house in order. We now have an AI Act that kicks in full within 6/18/24 months. But right here and now, you know, we’re also asking AI providers to be very prudent. This is an enormous election year. We need for service providers to make sure that when AI sort of enters into that space, that artificial content can be recognized, that deepfakes can be dealt with. Because if not, well, then our the integrity of our election is put at risk. And some people talk about the existential risk for humanity. That’s important, but there are existential risks for each and every one of us. If the algorithm doesn’t work well so you’re not accepted to university or you cannot get a mortgage or you cannot insure your car, well that is quite extent essential for each and every one of us. And I think that is the first port to call to make sure that when AI is used in that kind of risky use cases that we have quite a close grip on it. Well, if it’s used for a recommended system or as a box for customer service, well, that’s a completely different matter. You know, Margaret, while we’re talking about AII do want to come full circle when it comes to Microsoft’s investment in Open AI, Can you give us one final update on that probe and how you’re viewing the investigation? Well, we’re we’re not done. Of course our our concern is if deals are being constructed in a way where one tries to avoid a merger control that there is a de facto change of control. But one has constructed the deal in a way so that ones that we don’t need to spend time with any regulator on this planet. And that of course is important for us because we’re there in order to make sure that the market is open that competitors have a fair chance of making it and This is why it’s important. And this is of course also why we discussed with colleagues how they see this, this way of of supporting a company if if that is something that we should look at. So, so we keep it open, but of course intensified because also fair enough at a certain time we need to to make conclusions.