Opposition leader accused of pushing 'nuclear fantasy'

Peter Dutton's nuclear plant has major investors reevaluating whether they keep plowing billions of dollars into renewable energy this morning. Bill Shorten joins us now from Moonee Ponds in Victoria, while the man himself, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, is with us in the studio. Morning, guys. Nice to see you. Morning, Kel. Pete, what about you this morning, controlling the narrative of the nation with a thought bubble? Well, Kela, I think if you look at the top 20 economies of the world, Australia is the only one that hasn't embraced or hasn't signed up to nuclear. I'm not too worried about the billionaires who want to make more money off Australian taxpayers. I want to bring Australians power prices down. I want to make sure that we've got reliable power. And as we find out today, the independent regulator is warning that we'll get blackouts and brownouts under this government. And I want to make sure that we've got cleaner energy. And nuclear is a 0 emissions technology and it's been used in Australia since 1958, here in Sydney at Lucas Heights in the reactor there. And I think we can do it in a way that is going to underpin the success of the economy. I'll circle back to that in a SEC. But Bill, I know you're going to bag nuclear, but investors fleeing your renewables program and now we're literally running out of gas. Not good. Well, first of all, you can't build a whole power grid in two years and repair it. But we've stepped up to the challenge. The fact of the matter is renewables are the way to go. It's just a shame we wasted 10 years of coalition. Why not getting on board with the future? So we've also backing in gas. Gas is going to be our sort of baseload transitional dispatchable power and we've released our gas policies. The real issue though is this nuclear fantasy. I mean candidly, the economics of Peter Dutton's proposal just don't stack up at all. That's why hasn't revealed his costs, has he? OK, so lots of people admire your hutzpah Pete, but that's all it is, isn't it? Well, if you if you look at Bill's old union, the Australian Workers Union, they're strongly in favour of nuclear because they know that the jobs aren't there for the workers without it. And in many of these towns people in their hundreds, in their thousands are going to lose their jobs when the coal-fired power stations come to end of life. So we'll release the costings and that'll be an important discussion and one that we're happy to do because it will be a fraction of the cost of Anthony Albanese's $1.2 trillion plan, which is going to drive up the cost of elections. We'll always see those costings very soon Carlos, very soon. Days, weeks, I think, I think very soon and I think, I think people will be pleasantly surprised. It's it's a lot of money, there's no question about that. But this is an investment for 80 years. These nuclear plants can produce and provide 24/7 power for 80 to 100 years. The wind turbines last 19 years. So you've got to cycle them in and out three or four times in. In comparison, Bill, the problem for you at the moment is no one can quite grasp your renewables program because they're still paying through their shivering teeth to turn their heaters on this winter. Karl, I don't mean to interrupt the Peter Dutton advertorial session, but let's just go back to costs here. Well, why don't you just answer that question? Power is with respect. Well, I will, but let's but with respect, you just gave Pete three questions in a row about his non answering. I think I can go, I can rewrite the tape and it definitely wasn't three in a row, just so you know. Alright, 2. But if again, if you want to host the show, you're welcome Pete. No, no, thank you very much for the job offer. I've had a couple. The fact of the matter is that Pete's nuclear policy, it's like the guys now running for Prime Minister of La La Land. The truth of the matter is that nuclear power is much more expensive. Let's talk about the two most recent power plants being built around the world. There's one in Hinckley in in Somerset in the UK. It was promised in 2010. It's not going to be delivered till 20282029. It's gone from $25 billion to $80 billion. The other big plant which is being built is in August near Augusta, GA, that is blown out to $53 billion. It's well overdue. I mean, even Pete's trying to say that he's now back in the business of state owned energy. I mean, it's interesting. He's gone from capitalist to communist. He wants to say that he will pay for all of the energy, the nuclear power costs. He won't be paying for it. It'll be the taxpayers. Yet again, we've got this nuclear fantasy kick down the road John Howard rejected in 1998. Like it's not a serious policy, Carl, In terms of renewables, yeah, we are firming up the market there. Renewables are much cheaper. We're seeing a lot more people putting solar on their rooftops. But it won't just be renewables under Labour, it'll be renewables plus storage plus gas. All right, So that's a real plan and it's so much cheaper. Do you mind if I go to peat now? Yeah, please do. I'm interested to hear the details. All right, WA, you got an issue, WA doesn't want it. Your future Queensland premier won't be making a decision about his own undies before the next election. Local members everywhere are saying no, except in some of those parts of Queensland. So how are you going to steamroll the states into this? Well, Carl, this is a decision that I think is in our country's best interest and in our long term best interest. It's going to underpin economic success and jobs for eight to 10 decades, almost of the next century. And so there will be opponents and there will be people opposed to it. But I've made this decision because I think it's in our country's best interests. In terms of the state premiers, I've got the utmost respect for them. We'll work with them well in government. But in the end the Commonwealth legislation overrides the state legislation. So it's a moot, moot point in that sense. I believe very strongly that the 19 biggest economies have got it right. Why is Australia an outlier and why wouldn't we embrace the technology that can deliver cheaper electricity costs? That's the case in these other economies. I don't know that it's a moot point if all the state premiers don't want it. But Carla, the, the under the Constitution, the Commonwealth law overrides the state law to the extent of the inconsistency in the state law and the constitutional experts have pointed that out in the last couple of days. So it it they don't have a veto right over what the Commonwealth can do. Billy Pete makes the point about some of your unions liking nuclear. Have they got it wrong? I will. I love Pete quoting the AW because the AW will also say don't vote Peter Dutton at the next election. The AW isn't pushing nuclear power at the moment. I mean, Pete Pete's picking different arguments and let's just examine what he says basically is other parts of the world have used nuclear energy, so therefore we should, but other parts of the world drive on the other side of the road. We're not about to change which side of the road we drive on because our history is different. The fact is we are a sunnier continent than the Europeans. We've got more wind. The fact is when he talks about the other twenty nations, he's not right about Saudi Arabia, they're in the G20. He's not right about Indonesia. He's not right about Germany, he's not right about Italy. The fact of the matter is the only reason why some of the European countries are continuing some of the nuclear plants which were scheduled foreclosure and they're still closing, plenty of them, is because the Russians have cut off the gas and they at the moment need to diversify their energy base. We are in a different place, mate. This is just selling Mirage and Smokescreen as substance. I'm not you can make up your own mind about the safety. But the issue is, and I'm not even running that argument here today, it's, I mean to, to paraphrase what an American president once said about his rival, it's the cost, stupid. And the cost of nuclear is way over the top. And to be honest, I, I'm a bit surprised that Pete's going down this path. I mean, hats off to him for being bold, but being crazy brave with a silly idea which you'll never be around to have to account for the cost overruns. That's just, it's just smoke and mirrors, mate. Well, Carl as, as Bill's just demonstrated there that he doesn't have any intellectual argument against nuclear power in our country. And I think the other point is that we, we know from the international experience in Ontario, for example, comparable society to ours, they have 60% nuclear in the mix there. Their electricity prices 1/4 of what it is here in Australia. So I want to make sure that we can grow the jobs, but we can't do that without the stable economy. And we don't have a stable economy without stable and affordable electricity. Let's see what the cost is. OK? There have been some fantastic memes doing the rounds over the last 24 hours or so, the scare campaigns from labour, funny, some pathetic, but I like this one actually. Here we go under Dutton. This will be your family dog now, I reckon. I've seen one of those dogs walking around Mooney Ponds and Bondi. Look at that. This is magnificent. How do you feel about that being our future, Pete? Well, it's when you look at the memes, at the cartoons that I cop on a daily basis that that one's actually pretty complimentary. So you take what you can get. Billy, you fair call. No fair, fair call. Pete. Listen, this isn't going to be a debate one about memes, but it is going to be one about the detail. I mean Pete just quoted Ontario. Next door to Ontario was Quebec. QC has renewable energy and its price is 1/2 that of Ontario. The point is that this is not 1960 Pete. They they may be in the glory years for the Liberals, but in 1960 maybe we should have made a decision to go nuclear. It's now 2024. We can't. You're you're trying to say that in 100 years Peter Dutton is gonna be cheaper on electricity. Alright. We don't have 100 years to wait. It's good policy debate, guys. Great stousing with Billy, as always. And Pete, you too. Thank you. Certainly got the people talking. Thank you, Carlos.

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