Retired judge offers stark warning about U.S. Supreme Court

In our Law and Justice League, we spent a lot of time talking about the US Supreme Court on the show. We have a guest today who can talk about it in a way that no one else can. A long time judge who was twice under consideration for a seat on the highest court in the land. He's out with a brand new book, A captivating read. It offers a critique of the court that only a unique insider could. He talks about scrutiny. He talks about independence. He also talks about the need for trust with with the nine people whose decisions affect every single American. With us right now is retired Judge David Tatel. He served on the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit for 30 years, filling the seat that had been vacated by Ruth Bader Ginsburg when she was appointed to the Supreme Court. His new book is called Vision, a memoir of blindness and justice. And you might know that we have with us in studio right now, that's Vixen, his German shepherd guide dog. She is a pretty girl. Thank you so much for being with us, Judge Tatel. I really appreciate it. Let's start with the court, if we can. You issue a stark warning about the US Supreme Court losing public trust. You say in your book, quote toxic judicial confirmations, which these days look more like partisan punching matches than tests of legal acumen and personal integrity have contributed to that loss of trust. So have the ideological vote counts in many contentious cases. The public apparently believes that Supreme Court justices vote with the political party of the president who appointed them rather than from neutral legal principles. Let me ask you, do you think this started getting bad after the Bush V Gore decision in 2000? And, and where do you put the Roberts Court in this, in this gamut? It's, it's, it's a process that's accelerated in the past two or three decades. And you know, from my perspective, the basic problem here is that we have a court that is all too often not faithful to really fundamental principles of judicial restraint that are really quite essential to preserving the separation of powers and the checks and balances that make our government work. And, and, and that process has has accelerated in the past decade or two as as our country has become more political and as the court has become more political. I want to play for you. A Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York said earlier this week. Chief Justice Roberts is supposed to be the guardian of the court's reputation. In my judgement and the judgement of so many Americans, he's derelict in this, that responsibility, derelict as the guardian of the court's reputation. Harsh words from Senator Schumer there. Do you agree? Would you would you put that on John? John Roberts? My book is about the Supreme Court, Jake. It's not about the individual justices. I rarely talk about the individual. So let's talk about do you? It's about the court as an institution and it's the court's behavior as an institution that concerns me. Do you think the Roberts Court, so all nine of them is derelict in in guarding the court's reputation? I, I would not use that word. I don't know that that's the right word to describe this court. I would say as I do in my book that that is, is what is concerning to me. And I think many judges is, is the courts abandonment of principles of judicial restraint. And that's those are it's those, it's the abandonment of those principles and the decisions that come from it that I think adversely affect what the public thinks about the court. Yeah. And you're you're critical in the book of the court for overturning Roe, for the Roe V. Wade, for the Dobbs decision. But you also write, and this is really interesting, really stood out to me. Quote, it's clear as day that Dobbs, that's the decision of the overturned Roe V Wade, never would have happened if Justice Ginsburg Ginsburg had lived or if she had retired during Obama's presidency and been replaced by like minded justice. You then go into detail about a conversation you had over dinner with Justice Ginsburg Ginsburg and her decision to retire. Why do you think she ultimately decided to not retire during the Obama administration and how much do you blame her in any way for the Dobbs decision? The conversation I had with Justice Ginsburg was a conversation she had with many people. She did not appreciate the pressure to retire. She thought, you know what I thought? I think she never told me this, but I think Ruth Ginsburg hoped that she could retire and be replaced by the first woman president. I think that's what she wanted. And you know, I, I can't second guess her judgement. I do say in the book, which is what we all know, that she rolled the dice and lost, and the consequences of her decision were enormous for the country. I have to ask you about this beautiful dog to your left, your guide dog, Vixen. You're right. If talking too much about my dog is a crime, I plead guilty. I think there are a lot of us who are probably guilty of that. I'm certainly guilty of that about my dog. I just love to talk about Vixen. There's a sign on my desk that Edie bought me. It says ask me about my dog. But what's interesting you, you have had sight issues for quite some time, but you only recently. This is your first guide dog, even though you're in your 80s and you've had sight issues for 50 years or so. How has she changed your life and why did you switch? It's been the last chapter in my book is called The Dog that Changed my Life. And that's not an overstatement. I was a cane user for 30 years. I was pretty good with my cane, but I yearn for more independence. Cane travel is complicated. It's getting more difficult as the city gets more complex. My wife and I, we live in the country and we like to go on long, long walks, and it's very hard to do that with a cane. Vixen has given me a level of independence that I haven't enjoyed in probably 40 years. She and I go on. First of all, we commute back and forth to work. She loves escalators. And in the country, we go on long walks together. It used to be if I wanted to go on a walk, I said, Eddie, let's go for a walk. Now I say, Eddie, Vixen and I are going for a walk and we'll go for five, 6-7 miles. And I say in the book, Jake, that when I'm walking with Vixen down one of these beautiful dirt roads, I, I don't have to think about the mobility issues. I don't have to worry about obstacles. If a car is coming, she pulls me off to the side of the road. I can think about about the sounds of the river and the wind and I can think about the book I've been writing. Edie once said Vixen has allowed you to actually be alone for the first time. And that's been really profound for me. That's beautiful. Yeah. It's been really profound. She is a good girl. She's a very special dog. Yeah. That's wonderful. Judge. Tata. Tata, you, you honour us by being here. Thank you so much. And thank you, Vixen. Thank you, sweetie. The new book, of course, Vision, a memoir of blindness, injustice, is out now. A very compelling read. I hope you sell a billion copies. Thank you so much for being here, Judge. Appreciate it.