'This Week' Transcript 5-19-24: Sen. Chris Van Hollen & Victoria Nuland

'This Week' Transcript 5-19-24: Sen. Chris Van Hollen & Victoria Nuland

ByABC News

May 19, 2024, 10:15 AM

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, May 19, 2024 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

RADDATZ: And I'm joined now by Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, who has helped Joe Biden prepare for debates in the past.

Good morning, Senator. Great to have you on set this morning.

The campaign has talked about wanting to do these debates early because so many people vote early, as we just pointed out in that piece. But does this give Biden a chance to change the narrative given his polling numbers?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D) FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE & (D) MARYLAND: Well, Martha, first of all, it's good to be with you.

And I'm glad now we have debates that work better for the American people. These debates will now take place before millions of people have voted. They’re designed to focus on serious issues rather than create a circus atmosphere. And, in – in June, when the first debate will be, it will give the president, yes, an opportunity to really frame the choice that's before the American people. And the sooner we begin to frame that choice, the better.

RADDATZ: They – they cut off mics – you said an advantage for the American people. They cut off mics if the candidates aren't speaking. It's just one on one. No live audience. That seems to be advantaging Biden since former President Trump loves that live audience.

VAN HOLLEN: Again, I think this is an advantage to the American people. They want the candidates focused on issues, on the economy, on foreign policy. What Donald Trump likes is a carnival-like atmosphere. He’s more of an entertainer than a serious debater on the issues. And so I think this helps the American people crystallize the choice.

RADDATZ: President Trump – former President Trump has already started trashing Joe Biden, calling for a drug test, saying that President Biden was high during the State of the Union. So, we’re not exactly talking about policy yet. So, what are your expectations of these debates?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, we know Donald Trump. You just mentioned, you know, the drug testing. This is the guy who was the – the birther candidate. He is not focused on issues that, you know, are important to the American people. He wants to create this sort of atmosphere of a circus-like entertainment.

But the choice will be very clear. I mean you’ve got Joe Biden. He’s the guy who grew up in Scranton, Pennsylvania. He fights for the middle class. He believes in the dignity of work and decency. Donald Trump, agent of chaos, somebody who’s running for revenge and somebody who just said to a bunch of oil company executives the other day, give – give me $1 billion for my campaign and I'll give you everything you want.

RADDATZ: He – he clearly – Donald Trump clearly thinks there's an advantage here, though, or he wouldn't have accepted. So, what do you think he gains out of this? I mean certainly, he can talk to his base. Does it attract independent voters?

VAN HOLLEN: You know, look, Donald Trump believes that by sort of creating this atmosphere of chaos, entertainment -- we saw him yesterday down with the NRA promising, you know, the gun lobby everything they wanted, you know, saying he was proud of the fact he didn't take action after kids were gunned down.

So, I – look, the Trump campaign will have to answer, you know, what they want out of this debate.

RADDATZ: But – but let's talk about – the American public is concerned about Joe Biden's age as well. And I know you’re going to say Donald Trump is almost that age. But can you honestly say you don't have any concerns about Joe Biden that night in these debates?

VAN HOLLEN: I do not have concerns. I mean there were people who said they were concerned about the State of the Union address. He came out swinging. You know, he delivered a very clear message to the American people.

Look, it's not about the age of the candidate, it's about the ideas of the candidate, what they're going to do for the American people going forward.

Donald Trump is all about revenge. He's all about the past.

Joe Biden is about fighting for the American people and putting forward an agenda for the future.

RADDATZ: Okay. So let -- let's put campaigning as aside for a moment. I know in the 2012 debate, which I moderated, you played the part of Paul Ryan in rehearsals. What did you learn about Joe Biden's process for these debates?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, the challenge as always is to boil down a huge amount of issues into a short amount of time. And, you know, Joe Biden likes to explain things. He likes to talk about his record. But in a debate, you've got to really crystallize that.

And again the choice is going to be so clear this time between Joe Biden, somebody who's protecting democracy, and Donald Trump who wants to trash it.

RADDATZ: No way you're putting campaigning aside, right?

In the 2020 debates, President Biden was exasperated at one point. I mean, those were very different debates. The first one was total chaos. The second calmed down a bit, but he was calling Trump a clown, saying “shut up”.

Would you advise him not to do that this time?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I don't know if I would because you have to show the human side of people. I mean, I remember in the vice presidential debate that you moderated, there were plenty of times that Joe Biden did things that we had not gone over, right, in the prep. I mean, he at one point responded to Paul Ryan, “That's a bunch of malarkey”.

So you've got to show who you are. And, you know, when Donald Trump is being a complete jerk, then I can understand the president of the United States, you know, responding and letting him know that's what he thinks.

Popular Reads

Johnson disappointed with chaotic House meeting

May 17, 3:34 PM

Top-ranked golfer Scottie Scheffler arrested

May 18, 1:46 PM

Teen graduates with doctoral degree

May 14, 12:07 PM

Former President Trump, he's accepted the invitation for these two. He also wants to do more debates including Telemundo, Hispanic audience. Would you advise him to do more, President Biden?

VAN HOLLEN: I think we finally nailed down two debates. Rather than getting into a debate about debates, you know, my understanding is Telemundo can partner with other, you know, ABC or CNN, as part of that night.

So, look, you know, Donald Trump likes to talk trash, he always says he wants to do something and then doesn't. I don't know if he's going to testify at his trial in New York this week, where he says he really wants to get on the stand.

So the good news for the American people is that we've now locked down two debates.

RADDATZ: Let's look at this polling. The battleground states polls from the New York Times and Siena College this week show he's down by 12 in Nevada, seven in Michigan, seven in Arizona, and three in Pennsylvania. The only states where he had the slight edge, in Wisconsin.

How do you turn that around? That is a pretty dire polling.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I, first of all, polls go up and down. I mean, you and I have been following politics for a long time. We know it will go up and down.

But the short answer is to begin to frame the choice for the American people, which is why it's very good news that the first debate will be in June.

RADDATZ: And we’ll be looking forward to that.

Thanks so much for joining us this morning, Senator.

VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you. Thanks.

RADDATZ: I'm joined by Victoria Nuland, former Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs in the Biden Administration. Good morning to you. These are the largest gains we have seen in Russia, as James just explained. President Zelenskyy directly blaming the delay of foreign aid. Can they turn this around?

VICTORIA NULAND, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS OF THE UNITED STATES: I think they can certainly turn this around, Martha. But the six-month delay certainly made a difference. The frontline for Ukraine needs the artillery that we are sending. They need more air defenses. They need to be able to stop these Russian attacks that are coming from bases inside Russia. So, I think there's also a question of whether we, the United States and our allies, ought to give them more help in hitting Russian bases, which heretofore we have not been willing to do.

RADDATZ: And do you think they should?

NULAND: I think if the attacks are coming directly from over the line in Russia, that those bases ought to be fair game, whether they are where missiles are being launched from or where they are where troops are being supplied from.

I think it’s time for that because Russia has obviously escalated this war, including, as you said, at the beginning, attacking Russia’s second city, Kharkiv, which is not on the front lines, and trying to decimate it without ever having to put a boot on the ground. So I think it is time to give the Ukrainians more help hitting these bases inside Russia.

RADDATZ: One of the reasons that the administration has hesitated is because they believe it will escalate things even further with Russia, pull the U.S. further in. Why not – why – so why do you think that's a good idea?

NULAND: Because it's Russia that has escalated this war. Russia has learned how to pull its forces back out of the range where we have allowed Ukraine to use our weapons and get our support. So, they are getting a direct advantage in this war from our hesitation, and they have escalated massively. As you know, they have flattened a third of Kharkiv without ever having to get on the ground there. So, it is time to stop that and help Ukraine push them back.

RADDATZ: You have dealt with Vladimir Putin over multiple administrations. When you look at what's happened here and what he is doing, just – just tell us what you think he is up to, besides the obvious, and what mistakes we have made with Vladimir Putin.

NULAND: Well, clearly at this point in his life, Vladimir Putin has decided that his legacy is based on restoring at least the Soviet Union, if not a larger empire for Russia. He is defining greatness for Russia in territorial terms rather than an economic or political power. And he’s willing to sacrifice the future, not only of Ukraine and his relationship with the rest of the world, but of the Russian people for this crazy imperial ambition.

You know, I think the Covid period, when he was in isolation, just made him more and more paranoid, et cetera. If I had to look at one mistake we made, I think we underestimated what he was willing to do to get to this place that he wanted to get to for Russia, which is territorial and not political or economic.

RADDATZ: Secretary Blinken's trip to Ukraine certainly sent a message that the U.S. is supporting him. But what would you say to those Republicans who are still concerned about aid going there, or those Americans who say, look, we have – we have problems at home, why do we need this aid?

NULAND: Well, obviously, we have problems at home and we need to support our domestic front and our international front. But this is about more than Ukraine. And this is about more than Vladimir Putin. First of all, if Ukraine cannot survive and thrive, Putin will not stop there. He will walk towards NATO, and we will have a much larger war, because he will know that he can. And we will become directly involved.

But also, if you don't stop Putin here, a guy who has bitten off a piece of a smaller country that was not doing anything to hurt him, then it sends a message to autocrats everywhere that it's free game to invade your neighbor, et cetera. And that will send a message in Asia, it will send a message to Iran, all around the world.

So, if the United States wants to lead in this world, if we want to maintain the free and open democratic order that has served us so well, we’ve got to protect it abroad so that we can stay safe at home. And to remind the vast majority of this aid for Ukraine is coming right back to U.S. defense industry to build those weapons, for us, to replace the ones we’re sending to Ukraine, and it provides good jobs in more than 30 states of the United States.

RADDATZ: And NATO is now considering sending trainers to Ukraine, but the U.S. has said no to that. Is that the right move?

NULAND: You know, we do a huge amount of training for Ukrainians in NATO territory, in Poland and Germany and other parts of the alliance. It is hard for Ukrainians to come out and come off the front to train. But I worry that NATO training bases inside Ukraine will become a target for Vladimir Putin. And it does directly implicate NATO on the ground, which could, as you worried about earlier, escalate the war in a different direction and cause Putin to think that NATO territory might be fair game for him.

So, I think it still makes most sense to do most of the training outside of Ukraine but to give advice inside Ukraine as the Ukrainians ask for it and need it.

RADDATZ: OK. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. It's great to see you, Secretary.