Bob Carr tells New Zealand: steer clear of AUKUS

Bob Carr is among a group of Australian Labor figures who oppose the AUKUS pact.

Former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr has urged New Zealand not to acquiesce to American interests and join up to AUKUS as an associate member.

Mr Carr is visiting Wellington this week to be part of a foreign policy symposium at Parliament House alongside former Prime Minister Helen Clark.

The pair are strident critics of AUKUS, the military alliance between Australia, the UK and United States that will see Australia kitted out with nuclear-powered submarines.

They also oppose New Zealand’s involvement in pillar two of the pact, which aims to bring together a broader clutch of like-minded nations – like Canada, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand – with AUKUS members to share advanced military technologies.

Many in New Zealand, including Ms Clark, see the debate over membership of pillar two as a proxy for Wellington tying its foreign policy to that of Washington DC.

After arriving in New Zealand on Wednesday, Mr Carr said he admired New Zealand’s free-thinking international outlook, and Kiwis should not give it up.

“I think New Zealand has showed more independence and realism in its foreign policy and been less gullible about American blandishments than Australia,” he told AAP.

“Why you’d surrender that, I don’t know.”

Mr Carr, foreign minister from 2012-13, and former Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating are among the old guard of Australian Labor figures to oppose the pact.

New Zealand, which is firmly anti-nuclear, would not be a full member of AUKUS but the new coalition government, with Prime Minister Chris Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters, is investigating the merits of joining pillar two.

Last week, Mr Peters and US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken met and released a joint statement where they committed “to working even more closely together”.

“We share the view that arrangements such as the Quad, AUKUS, and the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity contribute to peace, security, and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific and see powerful reasons for New Zealand engaging practically with them, as and when all parties deem it appropriate,” the statement read.

Mr Carr said pillar two was invented by American officials “to try to lend some substance to what is a pretty high-risk policy on nuclear subs” and win market advantage in defence procurement.

“The so-called pillar two of AUKUS would require a laboratory test and microscope to find any substance,” he said.

“It’s being dangled before New Zealand as if there’s something substantial in it.

“It’s inconceivable that there’ll be any AI or missiles secrets flowing to Australia or New Zealand because of the generosity of Washington.

“Australia and New Zealand – New Zealand even more than Australia – are takers not producers of advanced military products.

“Moreover AUKUS pillar two would stop us dealing with other countries when it comes to military hardware.”

Ms Clark has warned New Zealand off involvement in pillar two, arguing it would displease China, pose a risk to Kiwis economically, and risk Wellington’s independence in the international arena.

Mr Peters, who will not attend the symposium, has been displeased by Mr Clark’s comments, arguing the government is far from joining up.

“Please don’t mislead New Zealanders with your suspicions without any facts – let us find out find out what we’re talking about,” he said last week, while in Washington DC.