'Independence can be delivered in five years'

John Swinney, good morning to you. Congratulations. Good morning. Thank you very much. I wanted to start big picture question and that is your take on the prospect of delivering independence for for Scotland, whether coming to power early days of your premiership allows you to set expectations in a in a realistic way. Can independence be delivered within five years? I think independence can be delivered in that time scale because the arguments for it are compelling. If we look at two of the biggest issues we face as a country in Scotland, the effect of the cost of living and the implications of Brexit, both of those major strategic factors that are doing severe economic and social damage to Scotland are because of decisions, bad decisions taken in Westminster. And independence is the answer to that. But I acknowledge that we have got what to do to build greater support for independence to meet that support level compelling within Scotland. And that’s what my leadership will all be about. Well, Brexit was a decision by by the people of the United Kingdom not not by the people of Westminster. But I I I I state your point and I guess linking back to the situation in Westminster. I I wonder whether you think the chances of independence change depending on who is in government in Westminster or not. I think the issue of of Brexit is one that we we we we have to acknowledge is is a really significant democratic issue because in Scotland we voted decisively to stay in the European Union and we’ve been forced out of the European Union against our will. If we’ve been an independent country we would be able to take part in Europe and not have all the damage and disruption that we faced. So that’s a central argument on the independence question. But obviously the the prospects for independence are essentially determined by the support that is for independence within Scotland. And I want to lead a government that makes that argument to people in Scotland, builds that support and makes sure that there is strong support for independence to ensure we can deliver it. Is it harder to make that argument if Labour in power compared to, say, the days straight after Brexit and when Boris Johnson, for example, was in power or not? I don’t think so, because I I fear that some of the other arguments that we would be concerned about that affect independence, such as the persistence of austerity, which is doing enormous damage to the public finances and to the public services of our country, will actually be prolonged by the Labour Party. There’s nothing I see in what the Labour Party is saying just now that there’ll be a dramatic shift in any shape or form on public expenditure. And we need to. That’s another issue where we need to make our own priorities. We’ve made choices in Scotland, where we have the powers to do so, to move to more progressive taxation. That has meant that higher income earners are paying more in taxation than people on lower incomes. But the product of that is that we’re able to spend over a billion pounds more in public services in Scotland than would be the case if we hadn’t taken those decisions. And that allows us to invest in improvements in our public services, in delivering the Scottish Child Payment, for example, which is lifting 100,000 children out of poverty today. And it’s been described as the most significant intervention to eradicate child poverty in Europe in the last 40 years. Do you think your government will be significantly, marginally less socially progressive than its predecessor, since Kate Forbes is your deputy? No, I don’t. I have voted in in my time in the Scottish Parliament for equal marriage, I was the Education Secretary that introduced inclusive, LGBT inclusive education within our schools, and the protection of the rights of LGBT individuals in our society is absolutely fundamental to my government. The protection of those rights and the enhancement of those rights. So that’s the outlook of my government. My government will work and support LGBT people within our society to make sure they are fully included in our society. They feel at ease in our society and their rights are protected. If we take a specific example, obviously Holy Rood passed the gender recognition reform bill. The courts have have held it up. Would it make most sense now to abandon that? Is that something you discussed with Kate Forbes as part of a decision for her to accept the role as deputy or not? No, I I didn’t discuss that. But the the reality of the situation we face is that the Supreme Court has said that we can’t legislate in that area, we can’t take forward that legislation. So I accept the rule of law and that that’s the the position we find ourselves in, that we cannot proceed with that legislation. But I think what’s the most important thing that I can say is that to LGBT people in our society, the Scottish Government is on their side. We have been on their side and we will be on their side in the years to come. So. So will you abandon the gender recognition Reform Bill? Well, we quite simply can’t proceed with it. It’s it’s legislation that can’t be implemented, so we cannot take that forward. I wanted to touch as well on the police investigation that the SNP has faced. You said yesterday that the last few weeks have been traumatic for the SNP, the word you used. I I wonder if you would say more broadly the last two years have been relatively traumatic or not. It does. Well, I I I’ve been pretty open I think in the course of the last couple of weeks. I I, you know two weeks ago if we were having this conversation I would have been saying to you, I couldn’t see any circumstance in which I would be the First Minister of Scotland and here I am the First Minister of Scotland. I think that indicates the scale of the trauma that the Scottish National Party has faced and what my leadership is about. The reason why I’ve stepped into leadership at the request of many, many colleagues from right across is to try to take the SNP forward to establish bridge out of the difficulties that we have faced and to on the party’s record in government. We’ve got really good record in government. We’ve transformed lives for people in Scotland, lifted 100,000 children out of poverty, transformed the infrastructure of Scotland, we’ve strengthened our education system, very low levels of crime in Scotland as a consequence of the approach to justice that we take. All of these things are strong aspects of the record of the Scottish National Party government. Want to build on that. I’ve got to move the party forward but acknowledge that the period of the last couple of years has been very, very difficult for the party and we’ve got to recover from that. Do you think the police investigation in memory and potentially still looming large when we approach polling day, will hurt you at the polls? Well, we’ve got to. I’ve, I’ve said that we’ve had a lot of difficulties and my leadership is about moving the SNP forward, acknowledging that those difficulties have happened, that we have to build a way forward. I’ve got to bring people together. That’s what my cabinet appointments are about. It’s about to how I’m drawing the party together, all of its different elements, to make sure that everybody feels they’ve got a part to play in building the future of Scotland by having a strong and successful Scottish National Party. And what’s crystal clear to me from any analysis of history is that Scotland does well when the SNP does well. And I need to get the SNP into a strong condition to fight the Westminster elections, to do really well in the Westminster elections, to continue the pressure of building support for independence, to win the holiday elections in 2026 and to deliver Scottish independence. That’s what I’m all about. That’s why I’m here, what I’m here to do. John Swinney, the new First Minister of Scotland, thank you very much and congratulations again. Thank you very much. Thank you.