Fear and loathing at Columbia

To get a more personal understanding of what campus life has been like during these violent protests, joining us now from New York are two Columbia University students, Jessica Schwab and Jonas. Dude, Jessica. After this firestorm over the last couple of weeks, I assume this has been a very emotional time for you. Yeah, it has been quite scary. And also to see the sort of devolvement of the the protests going from more peaceful and calling for a ceasefire into something that’s not even pro Palestinian anymore, it’s just more anti Israel. And to see the impact of that on my Jewish friends, on my friends who are from Israel, it’s a very, very scary direction that their movement is taking. Yeah, absolutely frightening. Jonas, how do you feel emotionally and particularly by Colombia going to all remote classes for this semester? Is that a surrender? Right. And I think that’s a very important point that you raised. This has affected everyone, whether they wanted to be or not. You see, we have students who were just trying to study for finals, and now they can’t access the libraries or the dining halls. And a lot of them have even moved out early. So this occupation, this encampment has really disrupted the entire campus life. So much so that a lot of students don’t even feel like they go to, you know, an Ivy League university anymore. Yeah, well that Ivy League credential I think has been tarnished. Jessica, what was it like when the anti Israel protesters seized Hamilton Hall? And then when the NYPD stormed the building and made dozens of rest, what was it like to just slip through that? To be right next to the person bashing the windows in of Hamilton Hall, where I’ve had many classes, was surreal, Truly. To watch that happen, to watch the glass shatter and almost fall on me and all the people who were also witnessing this event was was incredible. I I just couldn’t believe that. Also public safety could clearly hear the the commotion that was going on and the danger that was coming from this. And no one ran to Hamilton Hall until well after the mob had settled down. So you so you were right there and and actually the glass fell near where you were. Jonas. Should Columbia’s leaders have called in the New York Police days earlier so there would be no occupation of the building? Well, I think what we saw was just a lack of leadership from the very beginning, you know, President Manush Shafiq of the university. She decided that she was going to clear the encampment on April 18th, one day after it started. But she didn’t follow through on that decision. She had the NYPD pull out. So they set up new encampments. And eventually she decided to negotiate with these student protesters were violating the rules, right. So then what happened is they escalated once the negotiations inevitably failed, and they occupied Hamilton Hall as a result. So I think what everything that happened was a result of not taking decisive action from the beginning. So, Jessica, do you agree that Manoush Shafiq totally mishandled this crisis? And, you know, some are saying she should step down. I don’t know if I’d say she totally mishandled it. I think she was caught in a very difficult position. However, when you do indulge protesters who are calling for the elimination of Israel and no longer fit into the category of peaceful protesters, you have to stop indulging in these negotiations and start enforcing campus policy because the priority should be to protect the safety of all students, not just the right to protest, right? And especially when they’re no longer peaceful. Just a brief answer from both of you. I don’t know if either of you is graduating, but can you going to go back to this campus in the fall? Yes, Jonas. Well, I’m a junior, so I have about a year left. I hope that everything is back to normal in the fall. I would like to resume, you know, studying in the libraries, continue enjoying the lines. So we’ll have to see if, you know, the protesters continue their antics and whether Manish Rafiq actually takes a decisive line on this. Yeah, I’m definitely going to return. I also think it’s important for people with this perspective to remain on campus and not be pushed out and not reward the scare tactics of the pro Palestinian demonstrators. Well, good for both of you. And I appreciate your coming on. Appreciate your speaking out after having gone through this ordeal. Thanks very much.