Cocomelon, A Hit With Kids, But Are They Watching Too Much? | Kids Screen Time | The Breakfast Club

The first story today, how often are you out somewhere and you see a baby crying, and that helpless father or mother gives the baby a phone or an iPad so that they stop crying so that they stay transfixed? Today, mothers and fathers have to work. They have to raise their kids at the same time and sometimes you just need a quick fix to just calm your crying child down. Well, a growing school of thought is now arguing that putting your kids especially or one to four year olds in front of screens for too long in front of their favorite content for hours, that can actually really, really harm them. One is obviously the issue of too much exposure. So when you have when you have a little baby looking at screens for too long, experts say it can Causeway developmental delays. So in areas like problem solving, communication skills, but there’s another aspect to this story, not just being in front of screens, but the kind of content that’s been put in front of them over the last few years. A kids show, Coco Melon has been in a big soup. You can find Coco Melon videos. So if you just type it into YouTube for example, you will find it. And that is very colorful, very upbeat videos. They racked hundreds of millions of views, were not kidding, 400 million views. And they seem like just from the outset, the perfect kids content because it’s cheery, it’s loud, it’s happy. So why are thousands of parents across the world up in arms? They are arguing that shows like Coco Melon that are aimed at kids as young as one or two are deliberately designed to be addictive. Parents are saying everything from the frame rate, the scene changes that are taking place quickly, all of that, the bright colours, everything is designed to be over stimulating to even addle a baby’s mind. Now on TVC we like to get to the bottom of every problem and find a solution. So we thought we start by having a developmental psychologist with us on the show today. Saisha Sanni is with us to understand and explain to us this entire issue in depth. Saisha, thank you so much for joining us here on TVC. So Saisha, tell us the first question. You work very, very closely with young kids starting from the age of 22345 all the way up to 15/16/17. Just tell us how common is this as just an issue that you are seeing around you of parents giving their kids a screen to quell them? Are you seeing rising rates and this question of kids potentially becoming addicted, that’s the word that’s being used. Is there a rise in numbers that you are seeing? So put it shortly, yes, there is a rise in numbers. And ever since COVID-19, the pandemic, it has become more common to see screens in the hands of kids from the ages of two up to the ages of 18, right, Because at that point it become, it became normalised to have a screen in front of you for school. So that being said, I do sympathize with parents because it’s very difficult to sort of at the age of two or three understand how to adequately engage your child, right. So every parent’s situation is different, you know. But I have seen that giving a phone or giving an iPad, kids now even a very adapted using iPads, they don’t even need to be taught if there’s an iPad lying in front of them. Often times you’ll see a child going and open YouTube and like playing something just by themselves. Yeah, and it just, they’ve just learnt it, they’ve been born into it. So it’s something that is also happening to them. It’s also happening to these kids. But then the role of the parents comes in where, you know, you sort of have to monitor how much. How much is being a big question. Yeah. So we wanted to ask you this, that how do you discern when your baby is hooked to something? Especially we’re talking babies. So with a baby, what are the telltale signs that it’s, it’s hooked. What does hooked actually look like when you’re that young? So I would say, OK, so being a child of two or three, Right. What usually a child would do is go outdoors and play or find toys. Find things to like a book to read or something to draw. If you see a lower interest in these type of activities in your child, that could be a telltale sign. Another thing is if a child is on a screen, they have a phone in front of them or they have an iPad and you happen to walk in and say, OK, it’s lunchtime and you take away the iPad. If that child has an adverse response where they become irritable or they become angry, that could be a telltale sign, because ideally, you know, it should be the same as taking a book away from a child, right? Where they’re not. It’s nothing that they find too irritating. Basically that sign is it. For example, if if the baby makes a sound, is that enough of a sign or you’re saying crying? No, They could literally crying or yelling or screaming or shouting, throwing a tantrum, saying no, I want to watch the screen right now. All of these things. They could get angry with the parents. Another sign could be that they could have a lack of sleep, you know, at night. If this the child is seeing the screen at night to fall asleep, that could be an issue at school. There could be increased irritability with other children, distractibility, you know, they’re not being able focus in preschool or high school. And outdoor activity, If the outdoor activity has decreased and the child shows no interest in going outdoors playing, that could also be something that you can look out for. So we like to say that on TPC we like to look at solutions and so we’re going to ask you that next. What can parents do #1, and I’ll ask you this part by part, if they’re trying to change the behaviour of a baby who is getting irritated so they’re seeing these kind of signs and parents want to do something differently, what can they do? So I again, I’d like to say that start as young as possible because screen time is something that even an 18 year old, sorry, 18 month old, you know, gets introduced to. So you can start by sort of designating spaces in the home that you allow screens in. So say don’t allow them in your child’s bedroom. And allow means if you set a precedent at a younger age, the child is more likely to follow that through till they are 5-6 to 10 years old, right? If you are telling them you cannot watch the screen now, maybe try to tell them when can you? You know if you are. If you’re giving, give them an option. Always have OK, this is not something you can do. What else can you do? Right, So having a space in the home where they can play, even if it’s a small space, have all of their colouring books, their reading books, some games, board games, everything. Have it in one area so that the child knows that it’s accessible and they can go and play independently, right? So they don’t need to come and ask you. And yeah, so having a space, having a time, having a set time, when say, they come back from school, they’re very tired. They eat a meal and you give them one hour. At that point you say, OK, you know, now this is your screen time and maybe a little bit extra on the weekends you give two to three hours, right. It’s just that setting a precedent at an early age will make it an autonomous process. When they are older, especially, I feel like just on meal times, you know, meal times become a huge issue because a lot of the time children don’t like eating vegetables or they have very specific wants and parents tend to put a screen in front of them. Now it’s natural, right? Like, I’m speaking from a point of view where I’m not a parent, so I understand that there are different restrictions and different things you have to take care of, and sometimes you do. But putting a screen in front of a child at the age of, say, 18 months, when they are eating something, distracts them completely. They are not able to focus on what they are eating. They’re just looking at the screen, which might be your aim. But that connection gets lost because you have to understand you have to pay attention to what’s happening in the moment, especially at that age. You’re forming new neural connections. So at important times like that, try not to use the screen. OK Yeah. So lastly, I just want to ask you, many of our audiences may be wondering, a developmental psychologist, what role is there when a kid is 123 and you use something called play therapy for younger kids, Right. What does that look like? What is it? So as the word suggests, I play with the kids. And essentially what play therapy could look like, There are different kinds. Constructive play therapy could be like art therapy using different art mediums to help the child. Could be fantasy. You know, you make a fantasy world with the child just by using words. You’re on a spaceship or your wherever else. You know the point of play therapy is to help the children with their coping mechanisms. So say there is a child that has ADHD, right. And they usually, sometimes what happens is they have different sensory needs. So with play therapy and through constructive play, we can make sure that they are trying out different sort of of sensory objects like Atta or sand. Or we’ll make sort of a messy play pit and have have them just feel some of these things so that they can explore more. Right. Movement therapy, something like dance, something like football. It just gives a child a way to understand that they can use this. So we engage them. We engage them. Yeah. Thank you so much, Saisha, for taking our time and joining us here. OK. So we heard right now from a developmental psychologist. And that was particularly important because we wanted to understand how you can sit with younger children especially. But let’s move on Right now from this. We wanted to hear from more voices on this entire story. A leader in philanthropy. We spoke to Mohanda spy on TBC. Not only obviously is he the chairman of the Manipal Global Education Services, he is a man behind Indias largest school midday meal program and many more similar initiatives. He is also a parent in his own right. He says it is something he is dealt with. Sir, thank you so much for joining us on TBC this morning. Sir, question one for you. This entire story we’re telling our audiences, it starts with Coco Melon, which is a YouTube series online. What do you think of this, this almost spiral we’re seeing that’s taking place with younger children? Yes, I think you see most of this content which is put there online is deliberately done to increase addiction and to get people coming back. There are lot of psychologies, lot of money going into research to make sure that people get addicted, storyline, how it is done, the words, how they chosen etcetera. So I think these people also doing the same thing and getting children addicted. Now it is very important for society to understand what these people are doing and to make sure that we drop some norms and test them out before they are released. It is not censorship, but we have to take care of our children. It has got to be age appropriate, Sir. Researchers also saying kids are missing their developmental goals. We just discussed that because of screen addiction. Sir, what do you think? Yes, that is true. I mean, that’s what I’m saying because today there’s a lot of research that happens. People spend a lot of money on the research. Advertising agencies do that. Independent agencies do that because what do they want? They want eyeballs to stick. They want more and more viewers. They want more and more time, but the viewers to do. And for the children part, you know how much time the child spends, what, what does the child do, etcetera. That’s why parents have to be very careful nowadays. They must not let the children play with their mobile phones. They must not let the children see too much of videos. They must not put on the too much of the TV and other things to do. Because most children today are very busy and they want to have their own times. They want to get rid of the child going and asking for attention. They put on all this stuff and the children get addicted. Earlier 1520 years back, I didn’t see any of this, right? But Sir, do you think part of the challenge is also that young parents are struggling with actually finding good quality content that keeps their babies engaged? See, the biggest challenge for humanity today and for young families is the time that parents can spend to the children. We have nuclear families. They don’t have grandparents or immediate family used to spend time, so they have to spend time. They’re very harassed, they’re very stressed out, long working hours, they’re very tired, they don’t have time for children. Many of them are not even having children having a one child. But there’s a societal problem all over what people try to call work, life balance, etc. Because of the stress that is there in society, the competitive spirit, the need to earn more money and the children become a casualty because you don’t have enough time to spend with children. And of course, many people also send them out to play schools and keep the mall busy, where somebody looks after them, etc. That’s all fine, but parental oversight of children is very essential when they’re growing up. So thank you so much for joining us here, for giving us your views, your thoughts, taking out time in the morning. Let’s move on. Look on TBC, we love to also look at what solutions look like. We’ve spent a little time discussing what you can’t do. Let’s look now what you can do. One person working closely on solutions for the entire country is Preeti Vyas. She is the President, the CEO of Amar Chitra Katha and Tinkle Comics Studio. Let’s go over to her to understand more about their plans to solve this question. Ma’am, let’s just start with a simpler question for you. What’s the line between liking something and perhaps getting addicted to it? Content, for example. So I think all content, whether it is books, whether it is music, whether it is shows on TV, everything. There is a case for a parent to moderate, you know, it’s not that. Let my child express themselves and explore. No, it’s a child. It’s a parents job until the child reaches an age where they can make their own mind to choose and to curate whatever they’re consuming, whether it is food, whether it is content, whether it is their friends. We do that as parents. That’s like the basic job of being a parent. So when it comes to, especially when it comes to really young children like you mentioned, the two to four, I mean they’re like sponges, they absorb everything that comes to them. So it’s you have to be very, very careful what you’re putting up in front of them. And luckily we live an age of in an age of the Internet where so much guidance is available. Like a nonprofit, like Common Sense, Media Not ORG will tell you specifically what age, what is appropriate, what is not. You just have to go out and do that little bit of research on your own to find out. For example, with really young children, very fast-paced content, right? Or very fast-paced visuals do harm them, do harm the brain, and that should be avoided at all costs, whether it’s very fast-paced or whether sometimes things masquerading as good, but it’s actually got some violence built into it. The language might not be good. Some of the shows have really bad language. You don’t want your child to watch that. So that is the parents job, That is the teachers job. That is the educational job to figure that out. So at Amar Chitra Khata you have launched series for much, much younger children. Now obviously most adults watching this associate you with, you know, 7 to 12, but now you have got a much younger series too. Tell us how are decisions made for that younger series? Editorially, how do you make something exciting for young, young kids? So there is its part art. There’s also part science because there’s so much research being done in in the world of child development now that we know that at what age, what is the capacity or what is it that the child is able to consume? For example, we know that newborn babies do not have a full sense of the color spectrum. They respond best to, you know, black and white, black, white and red. Perhaps that’s why you have books for newborns which is black and white in them, right. With really strong visuals and so on and so forth. As you go get older in terms of the kind of language you would use, right. An early reader or a book aimed at a three to six year old, you would not use words with two vowels in the same sentence, in the same word, right. So things like that which have, which have come out of out of research done by experts in the field which guide us the Lexile score, as it’s called what’s a Lexile score that you would use for each age group. You would refer to those things. That’s the science part. The art part is of course the kind of colour you would use. The kind of, you know, images that you would use for younger children who use more rounded edges. You know, you would always see characters in but younger children, for example, above the builder, Mickey Mouse, you always see them having a larger face and a smaller body, right? And as the child grows, the characters also become more more adult like, right? The proportions change. So all these things are researched, they are done, they already exist. And then a lot of it comes from our own, our own characters, our own mythology, our own history, the way we’ve been depicting Ganesha, for example. Ganesha is a much loved character, right? He’s always been a favorite God or a Krishna. The way you would depict them would be very different for a four year old versus you would depicted for a 10 year old. We have to ask you, how affected is your editing team, the creators, by the fact that they almost have to compete. If I could use that word against these very engaging YouTube videos, TV shows, how do they feel? Yeah, we don’t actually look at actively competing with YouTube videos, right? Because the value that a book will bring into the child’s life is far superior in my opinion, right? If you have a much loved book, you will go back and read it a child. I mean, every parent will say every parent who has a child who’s been a book lover or from a young age will have a much tattered book, right? A book which has been come through like hundreds of times or the same story you have to read out to the child every night. Why? Because the child feels a sense of actually confidence growing. When you can predict what’s going to happen in the story, you know what’s happening next. That sense of confidence, of connection, of relatability. There’s some research just done that almost 70% of a child’s dreams under the age of five complies of animals. Wow, right. So there is, it’s very, very deep. And I think that the value that a book will bring into the child’s life is far superior than what a what a video would do. And like you rightly said, a video is, it’s almost, it’s very passive, right? Because you don’t engage in any of your own, any of your own senses and your own imagination. You’re just watching something which is given to us. Whereas a book is very active because you’re actively involved in that story, right? You’re actually involved in what is going on and you’re making your own imagination. You’re filling in. Even in the comic book you’re seeing 2 frames, but there’s something happening between the two frames that your brain is filling in, right? And one frame you see that king sitting on the throne and the next frame is he’s, you know, in a in a battlefield. So you know that he’s gone and he’s jumped onto his horse that that connection your brain is making. So those are the important things that you want the the child to learn and that only comes through books. So there’s a lot of Western special content. You talked a little bit about Indian mythology, but do you want to see more Indian content that’s made aimed at early age kids? Do you think that there’s a gap in the market? Right. Like I said at the very beginning, it’s not that all shows are bad. It’s not that all screen time is bad. These are very thoughtfully made shows with designed by child development experts with that age group in mind. And if you look at them, they all have a very common thread. There’s beautiful music, very, very melodious music, you know. In fact in the Night Garden is a show to watch. It help kids even go to sleep because it ends with a lullaby every time, right? So a certain kind of melodious music, well paced music, visuals, moving at a certain pace and not very fast-paced for that age, right? Simple, very simple storylines, a lot of repetition, repetitiveness of characters, of, of places, of themes. This is what makes a small child at that age feel very comfortable, feel engaged and feel confident, these things. And so we haven’t seen that much coming out of India, right, in terms of that age group, for that age group, it’s a combination of factors. There’s a whole commerce aspect of it. You know, you can advertise on those shows. So there’s not much funding available. That’s a different conversation. But yes, if you were to ask me what is it that children need in terms of shows, that’s the kind of kind of material they would need, right? There are shows which are made in consultation with people who have devoted their entire lives to child development studies and to see what is it that can really enrich what is a nourishing content for my child. Forget about being not bad. What can nourish the child exactly? Like food, You know, there could be something which is junk, something which is not bad, and something which is actually nourishing. What can be that spinach for my child? Preeti. Thank you. You guys are clearly working on creating one kind of spinach, one kind of kale for young children. Thank you for doing what you do.